Windows Vista Stories

Macs Never Crash… EVER! Back to School Laptop The Microsoft Windows Vista Rant Continues PC or Mac for Education? Putting Windows Vista on a Mac from Apple The Choice is Windows XP over Windows VistaWindows Vista StoriesChris Have You or Are You Switching from PC to Mac?

Macs Never Crash… EVER! Back to School Laptop The Microsoft Windows Vista Rant Continues PC or Mac for Education? Putting Windows Vista on a Mac from Apple The Choice is Windows XP over Windows VistaWindows Vista StoriesChris Have You or Are You Switching from PC to Mac?

I really like Vista but I’ll be dropping back to XP this weekend I think due to certain apps not working (and WOW runs like crap). I enjoy the density of meta data that’s available for everything that you work with. I’ll miss it.

I agree … Vista with your view that Vista was not ready … I have struggled with it since the night of its general release … I am truely surprised at its problems and particularly of its sluggishness … I was an early NT user in business as well as a 2000 user … even though there were driver issues/teething in early days of NT and 2000, the benifits far out weighed the early inconveniences … not so for Vista … while initially enthusiastic about new UI and WDDM concept and sound control, I quickly becase discouraged at the performance hit of Vista even with new versions of my apps … so I am back on XP to gain back performance and functionality …
I am some what skeptical of Apple, however. I have been burned in the past when they have declared their hardware and O/S version as EndOfServiceLife and necessitated a hardware replacement to get new “software features” … Microsoft is better about long term support, particularly XP and I find I can run XP on old Pentium 3 machines circa 1998 by merely cutting back on some XP features/services/desktop themes (have done this numerous times). Infact, I still use Office 2000 as probably many others still do on all classes of machines.
Linux is interesting but falls short as a desktop solution if you need internet content that is IE oriented or M/S applet oriented. And I don’t like to lose the good graphics or sound support of Windows. I run all flavors of Linux as servers but only consider Windows for Desktop.
So, I’m hoping that Microsoft tries again .. either “fixing” Vista or replacing it … meanwhile I will still run XP (Home for now) while waiting …. with Linux in Virt Machines on XP …
P.S. I build/rebuild all my own equipment so I have a natural affinity to Windows and am greatful for all the effort M/S spent dealing with drivers.
P.P.S I do agree with those critics that say that Vista should have drawn a line about the degree of legacy support so that they can start with a cleaner slate … sort of like NT did in the past …
Great Video about Vista … Thanks !!!

Chris
I purchased Windows Vista “Ultimate” … it collects dust on my shelf while my laptop happily runs Windows XP (the laptop came preloaded with Vista Home Premium).

To answer your question. No the poor experience in Windows Vista will not get me to switch to OS X or Linux.. at least not in the near future. I noticed a few things that were not mentioned in the conversation. One was about how long it took Microsoft to develop this product.

To put it simply the reason Vista took as long as it did is because… well they screwed up. I have all kinds of builds of ‘Longhorn’ as I’m sure you do. Longhorn 4074 if I’m correct was the last build before the entire longhorn project was restarted. Yes completely restarted after three years of work it was back to the drawing board. What did Microsoft do wrong to cause this? Originally Vista was being developed on top of Windows XP. Microsoft was trying to add so much that the XP kernel started to teeter under the weight and basically Longhorn fell apart. Many features such as WinFS were dropped or delayed for the final product. The ‘new’ longhorn builds started at 5000 which were no longer based on Windows XP but rather Windows Server 2003. They were very careful about features they added which eventually turned into the broken RTM of vista we have today….

There is a longer story where I learned most of this information available at

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_roadtogold_01.asp

Microsoft screwed up plain and simple.. that is why Vista took five years. This product definitely needed more time to mature so why was it released early?? Not only did their stock prices drop but look at users like you and me. Everytime we heard that Windows Longhorn has been delayed we would get mad! Plain and simple there were people switching to OS X BEFORE Vista even launched. People are impatient and that is a problem any company faces that released products. People want a product that works perfect, and is released ASAP. Microsoft had to reset the Longhorn project and start from scratch. They tried to keep this a secret but shouldn’t have had to! The reason they did is they didn’t want to lose more customers!! They didn’t want to say sorry we had to start over. People need to realize the yes Windows is a product and Microsoft is a company but what we have now is all created by people, human beings. Mistakes happen, period. I honestly feel like if there would not have been such a demand for Vista to be released Microsoft would have fine tuned it a little bit more then they did… Maybe thats just me.

YES YES YES completely agree. Windows XP migration was FAR from difficult. I moved two computer to Windows XP one with Windows 98 SE and one with Windows 2000. Windows 2000 had zero issues, it was impressive but its worth mentioning the kernel in XP, at least the original XP, SP2 changed the kernel in quite a few ways, but on to my point, THE ORIGINAL XP KERNEL was NOT significantly different from the one used in the tried and trusted Windows 2000. Windows 2000 had a large driver base already out there and most 2000 drivers worked flawlessly under Windows XP. The few that needed updates such as Video drivers needed only a few minor updates. Compared to XP -> Vista. Vista doesn’t even use the same driver structure in a lot of areas. Vista drivers are not even allowed to access certain parts of Operating system. What does this mean for companies such as ATI and Nvidia? They need to almost COMPLETELY re-write their tried and trusted drivers. Video drivers had been matured to near perfection in Windows XP but now they are doing something new, Nvidia severely! disappointed me when I initially tried Vista on a desktop machine with a Geforce 6800GT. My gaming performance was horrible, I had many MANY BSOD’s with nvidia dll’s shown as the cause. I literally did go out and buy a ATI card within the next week and ATI initially wasn’t perfect either.. but kicked the crap out of nVidia… anyways thats a different discussion. Point is 98/2000->XP was pretty much painless and XP was and still is IMO, the best, ‘PC’ operating system on the market. Windows XP everything works… PERIOD.

Windows Vista Service Pack 1 Beta… I do think its a little unfair to point out it has even more problems.. XP Sp2 betas caused huge problems and when it was released it was the most amazing Service Pack in the history of Windows… again that is my opinion but I think SP2 for XP could have been released and marketed as a whole new operating system with so many HUGE improvements, especially with security. An interesting point to be brought up is that the final version of Vista SP1 is bringing the Kernel version (currently 6.0) up to date with the Vista Server kernel which will be 6.1…. OK IMHO This screams BETA BETA BETA. I don’t remember a service pack EVER…EVER! changing the Kernel version. I guess Sp2 could have changed the Kernel to 5.2 or they could change the Kernel version with every update but besides the point.. Does this say… that ok Vista is NOT done and Kernel 6.0 is NOT ready for prime time… REALLY we needed until 2008 to finish Vista.. instead… when Server comes out, which seems to me is when Vista is actually going to be done, we will release a service pack that replaces the BETA Vista Kernel 6.0 and replaces it with our now finished Vista Kernel 6.1. I’m sorry but I think Microsoft knows exactly what they did.. Vista is not done and they know it.. why else a Service Pack so fast? Why else continue to issue Windows XP drivers? Why else would OEM’s prefer XP… Its simple Vista is still beta software. That is why I will be using Windows XP until Sp1 for vista comes out.. as much as I love the way Vista looks I refuse to use Beta Operating Systems as my Primary OS’s.

I need to stop this rant.. I could go on about the things I’ve noticed.. Another interesting thing.. is I’m going to school and becoming a Computer and Network Technician and I will begin my official Windows XP Certification this spring. When I asked the school about Windows Vista I will have to get it AFTER Service Pack 1 comes out. When I asked one of my professor’s about this he said it was discussed with other IT professionals and Microsoft Representatives and Certification should not begin nation-wide until the release of Service Pack 1. I was a little confused.. I want to know what those MS reps said…

I have been using Windows since Windows 3.1 and the program manager. First version of NT I used was Windows 2000. I plan on staying at Windows and support Microsoft. Apple is nice I have used them they just aren’t for me if I can I still want to live in the world I grew up in.. Which is Windows. Like I said Apples are awesome, stable, fast, sleek, they give off a nice vibe just using them. I just like Windows better. PERIOD.

-To Microsoft: Take your time with Service Pack 1.. fine tune the kernel, fix all the bugs, take another year if you want I have Windows XP and am happy. I want to use Vista but can’t deal with the issues. Don’t give in to peer pressure and rush your projects out the door.-

-TheDub

I have been using Windows since Windows 3.1.

No I will not be switching to Mac OS X. As nice as it is its just not for me. Maybe if all those applications out there started running on both Windows and Mac NATIVELY I would consider switching. My laptop came Vista Premium ready loaded with Home Premium.. ugh.. hated it.. and bought a copy of Vista Ultimate thinking cool a version of windows that does everything any other version does AND has extra features… Sooo I paid 400! dollars for a Texas Hold’Em game and Movies as my wallpaper!? Not quite what I had in mind.. not to mention Vista Ultimate sits in its cool packaging.. collecting dust. on my shelf… Well I guess i have a copy installed in a VM but besides the point I can’t use the OS as my primary operating system. Vista service pack 1 will be updating the Kernel of Windows currently 6.0 to version 6.1 which will also be used in vista server. So … when vista server is released.. that is how long it actually would have taken them to finish vista… Interesting. By the way this LONG article is a good reading and it also goes in depth as to why vista took five years to develop. Basically after 3 years of development they realized they screwed up and restarted the entire project. Its interesting to read.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_roadtogold_01.asp

Whoah my bad I thought my original really long rant didn’t post for some reason so I made a short version of it not feeling like retyping the whole thing.. ha ha

After watching several of your interesting opinions on Windows Vista, I will explain why I switched from the world of Windows based PCs to OS X.

I got my first PC in 1989. It was an original IBM PC XT. I got it for free from a business which was mostly using this computer as an administrative console for an IBM system 36 Mini and was upgrading this particular piece of hardware. My first “serious personal computer” before that had been an Apple IIc way back (These two computers are still in working shape by the way).

In September 1995, I got my first “modern” PC. I got burnt pretty badly by Windows 95 at the time (re-install every week or so), so I went back to Win 3.11 for one year, until NT4 was released next year. Then, I moved to Win 2K. After being burnt by Win 95 first Edition, I gave Win 98 and Win Me a wide berth on my personal PC (Just in case). When I heard that the consummer and Pro Microsoft products were being merged with XP I got upset. It wasn’t until 2004 that I upgraded to XP, after letting others getting burnt for me. In fact many users reported weren’t having many important issues aside from security which could be remedied rather easily.

Still, in March 2006, after dealing with a major software issue on my XP system, I started looking for possible alternatives first to XP, then after getting first hand reports from Vista Beta testers, to the world of Microsoft OSes, just to see if the grass wasn’t greener on the other side of the fence. I had solved my issue after some tricky and clever hacks, but wasn’t really proud of my prowess: I was more dismayed by the time spent just to have the damn thing work as it should have to begin with.

I had tried Linux in 1996 (Lack of driver was a major issue) and 2000 (Same issue + lack of professional software). In 2006, I noticed that Linux wasn’t there yet for my needs (and after over 20 years of the GNU project, if it’s not ready now, I guess it will never be).

So in Mid 2006, I started to pay attention to the Apple offering which was then migrating to the Intel Platform. Bootcamp looked interesting but not as usable as a virtual machine for Windows only software (in my case a legacy software released in 1997). When I realised that virtual machines were made available for the Apple Platform, I was nearly sold. When Apple released the 2nd generation MacBook Pro, I was sold. If anyone had told me in 2005 that I would be using a Mac as my next personal PC, I would have called him a nut.

Why have I changed my mind?

As I have said: Move to x86 platform + XP in a sandboxed virtual machine for legacy software + OS X (*nix + GREAT UI) + Control of the hardware = time saved. The current Apple consumer offering is as close as “Workstation grade stuff” as one would get on the consummer market, and definitely “workstation grade stuff” for the pro line. I am 33 and I have realised that time is the most expensive commodity in the world. When I compute the TCO of an enthropy prone Windows XP system just in terms of time spent to maintain it, there’s no contest. After what I read and saw about Vista, I don’t even want to compute the TCO of a Vista system.

I have a LIFE outside of my job. My computer is just a tool. I no longer have time to customize my PCs, getting rid of crap hardware or software incompatibilities. In fact I never had that time.

(posted this in another thread by mistake,i’ll copy and paste it here)

i’m 19 and I’ve used macs all my life,mainly because my dad is an apple fanboy.
Like chris said in the video,six years ago osX was far from what it is today ,in fact here’s what wikipedia says about 10.0 “cheetah”:
“The initial version was slow, not feature complete, and had very few applications available at the time of its launch, mostly from independent developers. Many critics suggested that while the OS was not ready for mainstream adoption, they recognized the importance of its initial launch as a base on which to improve. Simply releasing Mac OS X was received by the Macintosh community as a great accomplishment, for attempts to completely overhaul the Mac OS had been underway since 1996, and delayed by countless setbacks.”

That sounds similar to the vista situation to me,in fact many apple users were saying it was a beta and that apple knew it because they released 10.1 “puma” less than a year after cheetah came out (and it was a free upgrade), kind of like chris is saying vista is a beta and microsoft knows it because they’re releasing SP1.
But look at osX now,it’s in much better state,so i’m sure that microsoft will get its act together.
The difference,of course,is that apple couldn’t really lose any marketshare while this was happening because they had almost none,microsoft definatly has a lot to lose.

1. Chris, I forgot how animated you are. Its been a long time since TechTV watching you bounce around on screen. I bet your parents had a hand full when you were little.

2. I work in the IT dept. for a college. I support the Business and Computer classes so next year Vista will be on the desktops. I installed Vista when it was in beta and then freshly installed it when it came out with the full version (Business Edition). I of course moved back to XP and we decided to not put it on the PCs this year. (Thank God). I figured they would have some of the issues ironed out in SP1. From what I hear on your webcast this is not the case and it scares the heck out of me.
I have so many learning/teaching applications that need to be installed and I know Vista will not like them. Plus the fact that I have a program called Centurion Guard that locks the PCs down so the students (and instructors) can’t screw them up and I wonder how that will be like.
I have not found a person using Vista in a learning environment yet (I talk to a lot of college IT people in the SouthEast). All have said they are waiting for Vista to get more mature.

Your insight into the “vista” problem is a welcome thing to hear from somebody considered a guru in the field. . And it underscores the MAJOR problem US consumers have right now: Companies so concerned about their stock prices right now, and giving that 35% return on peoples stock prices, that they have lost sight of the customer. They lack a LONG term view. Your experience is typical of many consumers right now, and not just with Microsoft products. They lose customer loyalty in their mad rush to keep their stock holders happy and their stock prices high. Mattel and Fisher Price are other examples of companys that cut corners, and what has it gotten them: maybe the deaths of their companys! Thousands of people who will longer buy from Mattel, or Fisher Price orwon’t buy anything Chinese.
3 years ago I had a stoke, followed a couple of months later by a heart attack. I learned first hand that dealing with BIG companies was extremely stressful, and often fruitless. Having to navigate 6 levels deep on phone systems before I even had the option of dealing with a live person. Because the were MORE interested in saving “unnecessary” expenditures so they could give their stock holders that 35% return on their stock: Guess what? I no longer do ANY business with them. They have lost me as a customer. Acer computers is another. Being on a fixed income, I had to buy a cheap laptop. After running into “Vista” issues i had to deal with outsourced “techs”, who could hardly turn the power on a machine, let alone provide me any help.And their solution to EVERY problem was to re-format the hard drive and use the recovery disk. This is like having a flat tire, and being told that the ONLY way to fix it is to rebuild the car!!!
Let me say this about Microsoft support: Although there was some outsourcing when I called, EVERY person I dealt with (around 10 of them over 2 months as various issue arose) was INCREDIBLY patient, knowledgeable, courteous, and conveyed with their tone a real desire to help. ( I know this because as a former paster I dealt with LOTS of phony people) EVERYONE. Including techs, managers and even one member of the core team for Vista!! The problems are not with the ave employee it seems, but with whoever in management is focused on their stock prices!!!
Well enough ranting for one day, lol. I really enjoy your videos and the blog Chris. Keep it up dude!

Well Guys. I´m a former pc tech guy, I now work in the gamming bussiness. As a result I´ve always been the guy who tries the first beta out, always do. Did with w95, etc. Tho only windows I installed and threw away was the Win ME. When Vista beta came out, I read reviews, and waited. I´m Using XP64 on all production machines, and XP32 on home machines (driver and soft compatibilty issues with xp64). I just installed Vista Ultimate 64bit on my personal pc a month ago. After careffully chosing hardware. To my great surprise IT WORKS, Only one BSOD in a month and the culprit was an ESET beta. I dual boot with Ubuntu (I like to play with linux, but never found it ready to burn bridges with MS), Ubuntu x64 seems and is faster on some tasks than vista, Vista trouble: had to dump my trusty adaptec u2w 2940, nor MS nor Adaptec have 64 bit drivers. Had to chose hardware carefully. Vista NEEDS new pc´s. If you got an old one stick to xp (I´v got an pIII 700 runing with xp ok!!). If it´s for work, stick to xp, at least as every one says, let´s wait for SP1 and see if MS shows us the goodies once and for all.

Vista was released fine, it was the machines that weren’t ready for it. Again, if you build your system for Vista, there are no issues. Vista has been 10x more stable for me than XP Pro has. Then again, that just might be all because Vista detects incompatibility in hardware better than XP and XP was only crashing because I had memory that wasn’t really ment for my old motherboard.
Those that comlain about Vista only do so because XP allows them to run their components together and gives them their daily crash out of it. Vista on the other hand doesn’t, and you only get your monthly crash.

I must be one of those dummies. I have been running Vista home premium sinc shortly after it came out. And while it was trying for a while, it is now starting up faster, running faster, cleaner than any other operating system I have used. There are some games (mostly older) that I can’t run any more but all the programs i need seem to run just fine. I can still program in VB6, Vissual Studio 2005, VBA, Access, etc. MS Office 2007, Word Perfect office 10, PageMaker, Photoshop, Sibelius, etc all seem to run fine. I must admit, however, that I had to follow a link in one of your newsletters to a site that showed how to reset the services settings. My biggest problems do not come from Microsoft but from companies who have not developed drives that work properly with Vista(would a WOW be appropriate here?).
You know, when I first subscribed to a Lockergnome newsletter, it was for the techno knowledge which I found in great abundance on this site. I found the same high level of knowledge on your original pick lists but they have evolved over time. Have you thought of venturing into new medias? You could very easily become the next Montel or Rush Limbaugh. Just expand your victimes, I mean targets.
Well, I guess I really am getting old. You have a good day now.

Hey, Chris.

First of all I want to say(inform) you that you have a “fanboy” from “far far away” – Latvia, bet no one here knows where it’s. try googling it :) I’ve to chat room a couple of times and subscribed to “Chris Pirillo Show”.

Anywho, loved this video! It’s so on point! Like all of your “rant” videos :) In the end, like always, you’ve asked whether any Windows user is considering switching. Well, ever since I saw previews for all new features in Leopard, I really really started looking forward for it’s release. I’ve never used a Mac, well not for a long time, but never used it for work or any other purposes, and even thought I don’t really like that Macs have all text anti-aliased – it’s hard for me to read it, that’s the same reason I hate IE7, BUT STILL I am considering purchasing a Mac or a even better a MacBook when Leopard will be available in my country, because every single new feature it will have is exactly I always wanted to have in Windows and even tried finding some 3rd party application that will add them. Even if it would have been one application for each feature I’d be really happy, but never was able to find such applications – some were hogging to much memory, some were very ugly in terms of interface (yeah, I’m that picky) & some were just not adjustable therefor more annoying then useful.

Sooo.. I’m waiting for Leopard! Here kitty kitty! :)

I whole heartedly agree with the fact that OSX is now a very viable option and frankly will be a great contender in the choice of platforms. I have personally been using Microsoft OS’ since the days of DOS, and always been the great supporter of PC vs Mac. In recent years though with the advent of Tiger and the latest Intel based Macs, I have made up up my mind that my next computer/OS will be a Mac, absolutely hands down. I tried Vista Ultimate, and I have to say, I am not impressed. I ended up wiping out the laptop I tested it out on and went back to a fully functional XP. It seemed to me that they tried to implement some poorly copied elements from OSX, and added a whole range of incomparability issues for both software and hardware related.

I will at least be able to run XP on a new Intel Mac natively or virtually. As it seems like Microsoft is trying to push XP into extinction. I really think that they rushed this failed OS out, and unless they completely bypass it, and get their act together with just 1 option of OS like Mac, without all the bull. It feels as failed as their Windows ME edition which was one of the worst OS versions ever.

Success stories don’t seem to outweigh the nightmare stories. Quick note to throw in here is that ok. I have had bad experiences with Vista BUT if I install Vista and only Vista on my Vista premium/ultimate ready laptop yes Vista runs nicely, stable and somewhat quick. Now its 3rd party software / drivers that are causing me issues. Even some of my flash drives do not work with Vista. Mainly my U3 enabled ones. Half of them work and half of them don’t. My Microsoft wireless mouse also initially had some issues with Windows Vista. I driver update was released I found out today through my VM and it actually fixes that issue. Zonelabs also got on the ball and released a ZA Security Suite that appears to run fine in Vista. I can’t test my gaming performance but there have been several driver updates from ATI and maybe that has changed to. My point is in the almost five months now that I have been using Windows XP Pro on my Vista Premium ready pc Vista has started to take shape. By service pack one I do think that Vista will be great. Right now though I’m still not confident to leave Windows XP yes its improving. I watch the improvements through a VM though not as my primary system.

Like chris said once its like buying a car where everything works in it besides maybe the steering wheel and the dealer you got your brand new car from says oh we will have that fixed for you in a year for sure.

Vista is nice, it just needs a little more time IMO. The driver vendors, 3rd party software companies and MS themselves just need time to catch up before Vista really takes off.

-TheDub

I agree that some peoples problem stem from running old hardware but I doubt Chris or Jim Louderback (PC Magazine) are running old junk. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2171472,00.asp
Plus what about people like me? I work at a college as I stated in my other post and we don’t “build our systems” we buy from Dell.
We run Optiplex 745 which are Vista ready. We had setup 2 test computers. One with Vista Business with Office 2007 and one with Vista Business and Office 2003. Plus the updates from MS and the drivers from Dell.
What happened? Both ran slow and we had crashes. plus some other weird things with our network but I can’t be 100% sure that the network issues were Vistas fault.
Now we also got a brand new Dell XPS with Vista on it for the President of the college.
He could not sync his brand new WM5 based PDA with Vista. We finallly got it working but it took hours and many calls to MS. and Dell. Turns out it was a software problem in Vista. I am glad its working for you, but as someone stated it seems to be the minority who have it working perfectly and the majority that don’t.

Hey man, get a life!
It’s just a computer. Changing over to MAC ain’t gonna change your life, you’re just changing your working tool.
And why did you upgrade to Vista anyway? Did you need to do something that XP could not do? No, I doubt it. If something works, don’t fix it.

so backward compatibility its the problem of vista?

Hi Chris,
I just recently found your websites and really have enjoyed them. Just sat through the **entire (lol) cast of Windows Vista Stories. I thought it was a great webcast.
As for me, I won’t be migrating to Vista. I don’t like the idea of basically having to upgrade all of my PC’s just to run it, unless I just want to run the basic ver,,,,,not. A while ago I was converting to a linux home server and a dual boot XP/Unbutu pc, with my kids pc still using XP. Then came along windows home server. Hmm. I had to try it out, and I’ll have to say that for what it’s designed for, it seems pretty nice. But, then I got the Linux bug again, and loaded Linuxmint up as a dual boot system with xp. I then found out that I can’t stream to linux from my media stored on WHS, no input plugin. I haven’t been able to get by that. So I loaded Virtual PC into WHS, and put XP into it, and it streams fine to any pc in my house. So I don’t think I’ll be going to WHS.
Ubuntu announced that they are developing Ubuntu Home Server,,,Ha, looking forward to that.
As far as your question goes, no vista for me, LinuxMint/xp dual boot,,,XP replacing WHS as a file server for now, and the kids pc will stay XP for now. The only reason I’m even keeping XP around is for gaming. Oh yeah, Leopard could change things too, that looks really nice.

jeff

[...] Windows Vista Stories October 3, 2007 – 7:00pm Click to Play http://live.pirillo.com – A few friends joined me live to discuss their opinions and thoughts about Windows Vista. (…)   [...]

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