On Ron Paul and Libertarianism

“Second, he is a Libertarian”
He is a Republican, but the label you attach to him should not matter, it’s his platform that matters. For the good of our country we need to flush these labels down the toilet where they belong, yesterday.

“Do you like that the secret service is working to ensure the credibility and legitimacy of our economy’s hard money supply? ”
He wants to take us off the fiat money system, which negates that concern.

“At worse, he could cripple the constitution permanently and completely expose the United States to nihilist influence, domestic and abroad.”
I wonder if the commenter has ever actually read the Constitution. Paul is the only one who believes that the people who wrote it knew what they were doing and we should abide by what it says, with no asterisks attached.

If the best we can do over the next four years is not erode our civil liberties any further than they already are then I for one will be a very happy camper. Momentum is pulling in the other direction, and that needs to be stopped.

Belief in private property rights does not allow a person to endorse slavery. Libertarian philosophy is being one-hundred percent misrepresented here. Slavery is incompatible with libertarianism. The libertarian believes in the natural rights of each and every individual to self-ownership of one’s own body. Period. (Is this worth replying to!? Libertarians defend slavery? Or think it is OK? Give me a break.)

Libertarianism is not swept away into pro-abortion. Ron Paul is a libertarian that is against abortion. He believes it is the killing of innocence. (Doesn’t the author know Paul’s views? He is not for abortion.)

How is Ron Paul pro-drug? In what way? He is against the drug war (that is true), but that does not imply that one is for drug use. Someone that believes that a person owns his own body, believes that each and every individual is allowed to engage even in foolish activity, as long as it does not violate the natural rights of another individual. You can disagree with that philosophy, but it is not a philosophy of libertinism.

Next, who you are quoting is even more confused. Sorry, but he does not understand Ron Paul’s views nor does he truly understand libertarianism. Where does one begin with this? This author seems to believe that libertarianism means a fascistic system. He talks about things that libertarians are absolutely against. And, what is more, he is mixing hard core libertarianism with Ron Paul’s minarchist views. Can he not differentiate between the two?

Or take money. Ron Paul simply believes that it should go back to the hard commodity it has been based on, i.e. gold. Does this author not understand that via fiat money it is a system of inflation and business cycles? Maybe he should read some Hayek or Ludwig von Mises.

Next he claims Ron Paul is against trade. What!? Against Sony Playstation? This guy is completely wrong, confused, or maybe even lying to try to discredit Ron Paul (I am starting to think that). He is not against anything he so speaks of. (Excluding, of course, poisoned food. He is not for that! LOL.)

Yeah, that is about it. The last thing just got to me. This author does not know Ron Paul’s views and there is a good chance he is trying to distort them knowing full well that what he speaks of its nonsense.

My god are you misinformed. Better to keep you mouth shut and be thought a fool than to post this nonsense and confirm it.

Wow, where to begin? Your correspondent does a stellar job of erecting a straw man and then knocking him down. Too bad that straw man is tangentially, at best, related to Ron Paul. Rather than waste time debunking this point by point, I’ll just point out one ludicrous claim.

“Do you like that the secret service is working to ensure the credibility and legitimacy of our economy’s hard money supply? Ron Paul doesn’t.”

Hard money means a currency backed by a physical commodity. The US Dollar is most certainly not hard money. In fact, returning the US to sound money this is one of Ron Paul’s major platform planks. It’s truly bizarre someone could accuse him of not supporting hard money.

I have no patience for Rep. Paul and won’t vote for him if he somehow makes it through the primary precisely because I’m a libertarian and he doesn’t represent my view of limited government. But there are so many things wrong with Ultimate Josh’s analysis.

First, Ron Paul is not a libertarian. Never has been. Second, and more important, Ultimate Josh clearly doesn’t understand libertarianism. He asserts that libertarianism advocates slavery. This is the most ridiculous straw man I’ve ever encountered.

I have the right to remain free from harm. You have the right to remain free from harm. That includes assault, murder, whatever. This is easy enough to follow. But human beings are not private property in the way a television is property. I am my own property. You are your own property. Hence, we each have the right to be free from (involuntary) harm from each other, including involuntary servitude. You can’t buy me unless I agree.

It is not possible in that construct to then own another human being without his consent. No right to own slaves or pining for a return to the days of the Confederacy exist within libertarianism.

That should be enough to discredit Ultimate Josh, but let me tackle a few other low-hanging points. Yes, libertarianism believes in limited government. That’s based on the explicit powers granted to the government in the Constitution. Everything not in there is reserved to the people.

* saving you tax dollars - if the government shouldn’t be doing something, it doesn’t need tax dollars. I can then use those dollars to buy the service the government was providing in the private market, or I can spend it on whatever else I want to buy.

* privatize - This is not a blanket goal, but yes, privatization is good. Free enterprise is better at allocating scarce services and resources, as well as adapting to changes, than government. Government is good at destroying things and little else. The private market is good at providing food, shelter, iPods, movies, stoves, televisions, cell phones, Xbox 360s, laptops, paper, pens, magazines, baseball cards, lamps, locks, keys, shoes, shelves, tables, pans, plates, knives, forks, spoons, paint, coffee… Should I continue?

* CIA, the Air Force, nuclear arsenal - Those powers are granted to the government as legitimate. Common defense and courts are the most basic government duties. Libertarianism accepts this. There are certainly more radical libertarianism who don’t, but they are the minority. Nor does libertarianism believe that private individuals should control our nuclear arsenal. If we could use them to blow up our slaves, however, maybe?

* FCC - How exactly has the FCC helped us? Censorship? Limiting markets in media and technology through arbitrary rules and enforcement? Count me among the pleased if it disappears.

* you’d have to stop playing your Sony Playstation, hang up your T-mobile phone, and spit out that coffee - What? No one is saying this, even not-libertarian Ron Paul.

* every electrical device plugs into the same AC outlet - Ultimate Josh assumes this wouldn’t happen without government intervention. He is wrong. USB, anyone? Using Ultimate Josh’s silly interpretation of our Constitution, it’s now the government’s job to decide the winner of the on-going battle between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. There are people who will end up with useless dvds if they chose wrong. Government must save us. Think of all the people who lost out on Beta over VHS.

* hard money supply - We don’t have a hard money supply, unless he means the actual bills printed by the Treasury. We have a fiat currency. The value is not based on underlying gold assets, for example. On this point, Ultimate Josh’s attack on Paul is wrong because Paul supports a return to the gold standard. This is flawed, but it’s what he believes.

* someone loyal to the constitution regulates your air traffic, or would you rather have someone loyal to money - Government workers are loyal to the Constitution, not money? Do they accept a paycheck? Would they continue coming to work if they stopped receiving paychecks but were emboldened that they’re being loyal to the Constitution? I guess we can save some of those tax dollars and return them to the people. Of course, I’d rather they be loyal to not letting planes crash with hundreds of people onboard.

Finally, I love that violating the Constitution is somehow guaranteeing its stability. I had to destroy it to save it, don’t you see?

In a libertarian world he can and will have all those things available.
They just won’t be given to you by the government. I won’t be forced to buy you things I don’t want and you won’t be forced to buy me things you don’t want. That’s not exactly an anti-liberty stance.

He can even join a voluntary collective that limits his freedoms to specific, approved choices, if he so desires. He just doesn’t have the right to force me into his collective. His view fits into libertarianism. Libertarianism does not fit into his view. Forcing me into his view because he likes it is a form of control over me. It’s short of slavery, but barely. He’s saying that he possesses the right to choose for me. No, thanks.

Oh man. Why is it that none of us even speak the same language. No time to take this apart.

I’m pretty sure we’ve all watched Fox news. It was obvious to anyone before and after that video appeared. The video was merely a SMALL example, and most people who have watched Fox news knows this.

I can’t even begin to count the number of times I’ve heard they are fair and balanced, yet when watching their shows almost every time I wonder - why wasn’t this point made, why didn’t they even bring up this point, etc.

Bottom line, it’s not a news station, it’s a political attack station. Fox even appealed a lawsuit saying - they by law are allowed to manipulate the news and won.

“Chris Pirillo spent 5 years trying his hand at swimming pool repair, only to have to fall back on technology.”

That’s a different perspective too, Chris — from the truth. The guy who posted that about Paul wasn’t even wrong. It’s just utter garbage. Saying that libertarianism ultimately leads to slavery? The very pinnacle of *limiting* human freedom?

Dude.

And keep in mind that just posting something on your site is an endorsement — even if you say you don’t necessarily agree. It’s like posting some lame-*** hate speech and saying you just wanted to be fair. It still hurts you because it’s still **** that you put on your site.

Ok saying Paul was never a Libertarian is a stretch, he ran as the Libertarian candidate for president in 1988 for crying out loud.

Regardless if i agree with him over his more radical views, it doesnt matter. We need him now in the white house to clean up the mess. He’ll air out all of Cheneys secret dirty laundry, kick out the corrupt ones and encourage congress to take their oath of office seriously and reward integrity by example. We need a strict constitutionalist statesman.

We simply cant take another empty suit moderate or neoconservative who will keep taking us down the same road, well go bankrupt just like the Soviets did.

We unfortunately need a radical like paul to shake things up at this stage of our history.

“Well, given that life is property, and one has a human right to own private property…Oops! Slavery.”

That is easily the silliest thing I’ve read this week (but the week is young). It is becomming obvious that word play is all that is left to those with contempt for liberty, property, and peace. How could anyone honestly interpret “I own myself” to mean “therefore I get to own others”?

As Lenin advised “First, confuse the vocabulary”.

With opposition of this caliber, Ron Paul may be our next president.

Your site has been blocked and tagged for blatant disregard of factual evidence. Have a nice day!

And if there is one thing history teaches us unequivocally, it’s that Xenophobia kills. Ask a Jew. Or a Cherokee.

Xenophobia isn’t so bad. It’s the de-humanization you have to watch out for.

I see a Ron Paul post.. I knew Daniel Miessler wouldn’t be left out :)

–Rich

Of course libertarianism doesn’t support slavery. But it does support a blind faith in the markets solving all problems economic and social. The private sector is good for providing material things…for those who can afford them. It does not create a system where everyone who is willing to work hard will definitely be able to afford these things, including the basics. This is a myth. People who currently live paycheck to paycheck aren’t going to magically have enough money to put away for their retirement and cover emergencies. All that money that libertarians claim could be saved up because those nasty taxes would be reduced so drastically would vanish in a heartbeat when anyone loses their job or if a medical emergency occurs. In the libertarian world where there is no government safety net for anyone these people as well as the disabled would fall by the wayside.

As I said, the slavery thing is ridiculous but Paul’s philosophy does call for the elimination of all “non-essential” government agencies, which in his philosophy means all of them except for defense and law enforcement (including the accompanying judiciary). Not only no FCC but no FTC, EPA, FDA, OSHA or anything else resembling regulation or limits on business. I think he’d leave customs inspectors in place but he might privatize it out to companies that will hire people at $9.00 an hour and minimal training to do the job much like the private contractors in charge of our airport security. As anyone who’s called Dell tech support can attest, profit comes above service or doing the job right in far too many companies. But I forgot. In libertarian fantasyland private businesses always work best.

Would anyone like a one world government? Well that is what we are headed for so please bury your head in the sand, deny the truth, wake up to your disappearing freedoms and vote for the next joe (hillary, dodd, etc.). At least Ron Paul is against the NWO….what can you say for yourself?

Comments from a foreigner…
1. One can observe that “Ultimate Josh” has definitelly been out of the USA and visited any other country in the world.
2. Like the points he makes but dont exactly agree 100% (95% actually)
3. Topics in American culture are not dealt with directly: meaning, everyone always has a hard time talking with other races.
4. I think that some select group of Americans have started to mate with vegetables. Ron Pauly….
5. Whether you wan to accept it or not, CHANGE will come extremely fast.
6. America is afraid of change… (America is refered to in the sense of the GREAT majority)
7. This fear is traceable to the begginings of America and the idea of Libertarianism. See 8.
8. It takes a Libertarian to write the Constitution! (REDUNDANCY!)
9. George Washington = Libertarian = Major player and believer of the constitution.
10. Constitution grants freedom! Not even ammended but rather, there from the very beggining. Plus, the constitution has been ammended sooo many times, so don’t take it as divine truth! Anti-Libertarianism?!?!?
11. GW owned Blacks. (Yes, you got to say it! It’s CAPITALIZED, so cool down.)
12. GW would have chopped his own dic… daughter should he have seen freedom for Blacks.
13. Xenophobia Begins… FEAR OF CHANGE!!
14. Slavery
15. Racism
16. Confinement (Remember what happened to the Asians after Pearl Harbor??)
17. Segregation
18. Modern Xenophobia = False hope of deportation…
19. Modern Social Xenophobia = Fear of changing Health Care to a socialized network because it would be too “Communist”.
20. Almost every country out there has this system of Health Care….
21. Enough of Health Care. Xenophobia is such a big issue within your culture that it causes the biggest problems in your history.
22. America finds itself “securing borders” with mexico, while its sovereignty is raped by a couple of Russian war airplanes flying on US airspace. Ironically, THAT BORDER WAS 180 DEGREES WITH RESPECT TO THE NORMAL.
23. Xenophibia makes the majority think anyone else is a threat and thus is not even human.
24. Treat illegal immigrants like humans! please….
25. Last time Xenophobia overtook a military leader COMPLETELY, it didn’t end up good. (Hitler)
26. Not everything that shines is gold.
27. Xenophobia = Lack of confidence = Lack of character.
28. Ron Paul = Xenophobia.
29. George W Bush = Lack of Character = Famous Comedian
30. The more you oppose change, the harder it will be.
31. Americans find it an insult to pay taxes.
32. Even if taxes increased 10% they would be lower than in many countries.
33. Don’t vote for a candidate that says he will lower taxes.
34. Don’t be lazy and pay your taxes.
35. Illegals do not drain taxes because their fake social security number does not match the name in the offices so they don’t get any! That means, Taxes coming IN, nothing coming OUT. (you get tax witheld from work!!)
36. (35.) was a no brainer but I imagine you wouldn’t have figured otherwise because you would prefer believing CNN’s Lou Dobb’s faulty reasoning.
37. Media shapes YOUR COUNTRY

Vote Ron Paul 2008.

HOLY ****, good comments. Good debate, I’m still voting for Ron Paul. We need some REAL CHANGE. Nobody minds paying taxes, we just want accountabiliy OK. Iv’e change my party, GO RON PAUL. I’m in till the end.