Move Over, Michael Moore!

Chris Pirillo

Follow links here:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Fact+Check+Loose+Change&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

THe movie is filled with more errors than a C program written by a newbie. If you believe that stuff, you probably also believe that the moon landings were faked and that “intelligent design” makes sense.

My first reaction on seeing this post was that I’d make the comment of “Well hopefully it’s more accurate than F9/11 was… but I see the first commenter has already blown a hole in that theory.

The truth:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/

We have been covering this ridiculous film for a couple of months now at Screw Loose Change. I sometimes think rather than fisking the movie we should have just compiled the things they got right; it would be a very short list.

Don’t believe me? Google Wally Miller coroner sometime. Loose Change presents four quotes from him which certainly indicate that he saw no plane or bodies at Shanksville. But these are carefully selected quotes; read any good article about him and you’ll find that he knows that Flight 93 crashed where it did, that he recovered enough body parts to make DNA identification of all the pasengers.

Also, check on Marvin Bush. The movie leads you to believe that he changed the security at the WTC a few days before 9-11, but the fact is that he left that company in June of 2000. Not that he would have had anything to do with day-to-day operations anyway; he was just a member of the board of directors.

This is a bogus movie and you are doing your readers a disservice by recommending it.

http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html is the most definitive refutation of that film I’ve seen.

Yeah…I was a bit disturbed after first watching “Loose Change”. While I feel the film has some definite flaws (basically in the form of not providing enough evidence for some of the claims), it does point out many upsetting realities we chose to ignore after September 11th…and we did let our government rewrite that history for us. That was made even more clear this week when we “officially” found out that timeline on the released tapes didn’t match the timeline as provided by government officials. Of course, we are supposed to feel better knowing that the Pentagon states it did not “intentionally mislead” us. Right…and they didn’t mean that they really knew where those WMDs were in Iraq.

What upsets me most about “Loose Change” is that we have been so deceived by our government on so many levels since 9/11, that we can bring ourselves to believe such a film. The suggestion that our own government planned this attack should be something that we all shun and scorn. But the lies upon lies upon lies have led us to a spot where we can’t trust anything they say. They only have themselves to blame for creating an environment where such claims are possible. If only they told us the truth from day one…but they didn’t, and it’s natural to wonder why.

Anyway, I’m pretty far removed from “Loose Change” now, as it’s been a few months since I’ve seen it. Personally, I don’t buy the whole package. Perhaps it’s because my mind won’t let me go there…but plane swapping and a massive gold heist…well, I don’t know. Does that mean I think our government wasn’t somehow complicit in these attacks…nope. I’m pretty sure they were somehow involved. I just don’t think “Loose Change” has the story quite right.

Man, Chris, you’re a complete nut – I never knew you had it in you!

Frankly, I can’t believe people believe this type of stuff. What an idiot….

There’s some odd stuff about 9/11 to be sure, especially the almost immediate news blackout on the Pentagon site. But this Reichstag Fire theory tends to imply that it must have been our government involved because Arabs and Muslims couldn’t possibly have pulled it off on their own. Yet Dubya is hardly a genuis, now is he?

There’s so many nasty conspiracies and outrages out there that I say, why try to create new ones? Instead, let’s organize against the ones that are obvious.

You’re getting political, Chris. Good. There’s many pitfalls and traps for newbies (and the experienced politico too) in the treacherous world of politics. Keep exploring,.

PS Yes, the media spoonfeeds us, much is manufactured (AKA ‘propaganda”), and absolutely, always make up your own mind.

Thanks for opening my mind to this stuff. I have had a hard time coping with what happened that day ever since it happened because of the horrible deaths, but this movie does touch on a few things that i wondered about the day it happened, including the “cleanliness” of the trade center collapse. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but I wouldn’t be suprised if there was a lot more to the events that occured than what the government is giving us through media plugs.

P.S. I really enjoy reading your articles in CPU. I agree, the music industry and others don’t get it. I’ve been waiting for the day when its simplified and I can get my high quality music transported easily from somewhere else, to my home stereo and PC where it can be played on my pristine sound system, car stereo, and headphones, on demand. I-Tunes is too clumsy, pirating is easy but usually has files with sucky quality, and buying CD’s doesn’t allow me to pick the songs I want without wasting money on songs I don’t want.

Chris: Dr. Phil would be the first to tell you that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You’re not an idiot, just examine the claims made by the movie and see if they stand up to scrutiny.

P.P.S. I visited the rest of the sites you noted in your article and I thought Blaugh was funny, especially for those torrent pirates like myself who actually know what you are talking about.

TagJag.com is alright, but I haven’t gotten the “RSS feed addiction” yet, so it isn’t as useful as I had hoped. Some RSS feeds are WAY to wordy for me to pay attention to them.

I listend to a podcast that you had posted on your site where you talk about, well, podcasts actually. I really liked what you said about the future of podcasting and how cool it would be to have a podcast in a museum in Italy that could tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the art you were looking at. That would be awesome, although when I attended the Seattle Music Project and walked around with those retarded headsets on, it wasn’t very cool. Or at least it wasn’t nearly as cool as I thought it was going to be. My favorite part was the Funk Tour where you got to ride on that super expensive virtual tour of Funk music….anyway….

I don’t want your money…i just think you are cool. Newbie girls like me have to look up to somebody to teach them the ropes.

Oh yah….

and rentmychest.com…well…lets just say it was mighty entertaining, but I couldn’t imagine forking over $50.00 to look at a picture of a manschest, even if it did have nice nipples.

I hope you’re joking with the Loose Change plug… The government can’t rescue people in NOLA/Kantrina but somehow they’re smart enough to plan and execute 9/11? Not really buying it… this is Art Bell territory.

Excuse me if I don’t hold my breath waiting for the mothership.

C’mon Chris. You’re smarter than these paranoid conspiracy lunatics.

“http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html is the most definitive refutation of that film I’ve seen.”

With all due respect, I looked up one of the claims “refuted” by the site…which was John Ashcroft’s reasoning for not flying. Now, obviously no one knows why John Ashcroft really stopped flying commercially,. However, I can’t accept taking his word for it in his testimony in front of the 9/11 Commission as “definitive refutation”. If the accusation is that he knew, therefore he stopped flying commercially, then this is a huge conspiracy, and you can’t expect his words to the Commission to be truthful. If the belief is that our government knew, you can’t trust any of the testimony provided by any government official (and, apparently, we shouldn’t, as we discovered last week that the Pentagon definitively misled the nation about what happened that day). A site that uses the words of these officials as proof that the government wasn’t involved misses the entire point.

And, again, my point isn’t that “Loose Change” is an accurate documentary. My point is that we have no idea about the accuracy of it because we’ve been told so many lies and so much of the truth has been hidden from us. And we do have to ask ourselves why that is. As far as I’m concerned, those who believe “Loose Change” without questioning it are as big of fools as those who believe our government without questioning it.

Loose Change is a great film. 19 hijackers with box cutters? Now that’s a conspiracy theory.

There is one flaw in that whole situation (Besides all of the obvious ones)…..if our government has the power to make up complete flight roster and famlies of passengers, andtake down those buildings, without ANYONE leaking it…….Why is the guy that made that movie still alive? If the government has no problem with killing thousands of citizens, why did they not kill him…….

Loose Change’s Jason Bermas to Appear on MSNBC Today at 12:30 EST

Sorry, wrong info on MSNBC Today having Jason Bermas on as a guest. That I’m told was on last Friday.

Here are a few websites to visit for further info on 9-11 + news you won’t get from the main stream media.

infowars.com
prisonplanet.com
whatreallyhappened.com

With all due respect, I looked up one of the claims “refuted� by the site…which was John Ashcroft’s reasoning for not flying. Now, obviously no one knows why John Ashcroft really stopped flying commercially,.However, I can’t accept taking his word for it in his testimony in front of the 9/11 Commission as “definitive refutation�.

The point was that John Ashcroft did not stop flying commercially. Michael Moore accepts that and that is why it didn’t make into his film:

[www.nytimes.com/2004/06/20/movies/20SHEN.html?pagewanted=all&ei=5007&en=906cd89473ac07fc&ex=1403064000 An earlier version of the film, however, included a reference to a widely circulated charge, broadcast by CBS News in July 2001, that Mr. Ashcroft had received warning of threats and stopped flying on commercial airlines. Tia Lessin, supervising producer of "Fahrenheit 9/11," said the reference to the CBS report was cut after Mr. Moore's fact-checking team found evidence that Mr. Ashcroft had flown commercially at least twice that summer.]

If the accusation is that he knew, therefore he stopped flying commercially, then this is a huge conspiracy, and you can’t expect his words to the Commission to be truthful.

The point is he didn’t stop flying commercially. It doesn’t matter whether he knew or not. The argument is a nonstarter because the premise that the argument rests on (that he stopped flying commercially) has been shown to be false.

If the belief is that our government knew, you can’t trust any of the testimony provided by any government official (and, apparently, we shouldn’t, as we discovered last week that the Pentagon definitively misled the nation about what happened that day).

You don’t have to trust his testimony. He made a falsifiable claim that he continued to fly commercial aircraft. The evidence supports this. BTW, what did I miss last week?

A site that uses the words of these officials as proof that the government wasn’t involved misses the entire point.

This is a mischaracterization of the site’s content. Very few refutations rely on the testimony of government officials. And the reason John Ashcroft was quoted is probably because it was easy to verify that John Ashcroft did still fly commercial aircraft (at least easy enough for Michael Moore to verify it).

And, again, my point isn’t that “Loose Change� is an accurate documentary. My point is that we have no idea about the accuracy of it because we’ve been told so many lies and so much of the truth has been hidden from us.

I agree with you that the Bush administration and its supporters are a bunch of disingenuous bastards. However, we can evaluate many of the claims in the film by how they match up with what we do know and from that we can debunk many of its claims. Just because the film is against Bush, doesn’t mean that its claims are true.

And we do have to ask ourselves why that is. As far as I’m concerned, those who believe “Loose Change� without questioning it are as big of fools as those who believe our government without questioning it.

I definitely agree with you there. The secrecy of this administration is very disturbing.

Loose Change is a great film. 19 hijackers with box cutters? Now that’s a conspiracy theory.

WTF?

NOOOO Chris! Tell us it ain’t so!

Loose Change is a travesty. I’m very disappointed.

Wait, are you serious Chris? I also watched this months ago because I had nothing better to do at 2 in the morning and I honestly can’t believe that you were being serious when you endorsed this pile of dog crap.

Please tell me you were kidding before I seriously start to doubt your intelligence.

Giving this all a quick read, it seems we are pretty much in agreement. And thank you for the link to the article about Ashcroft flying commercially.

Perhaps I missed it (although I looked again), but I didn’t see anything but Ashcroft’s word on the site. Had they included a source beyond his testimony, I certainly would have given it more credibility, and I certainly wouldn’t have dismissed the site right away.

Also, that was the first and only claim I clicked on, so I had to go with what I saw. I’m just someone who can’t believe our government at its word, and it looked to me like that’s what the site was asking me to do. I need sources.

And, of course, if a film is against Bush, that doesn’t mean the claims are true. I’m not sure where in my posting I led you to believe these were my thoughts. I simply didn’t agree that “definitive refutationâ€Â? came in the form of one of the accused’s testimony. Again, perhaps I missed something…

I dont know about made up families and what not but those buildings came down too clean. The biggest thing for me was that a fire never brought down a skyscraper before, yet 3 buildings collapsed on the same day from fire. Hmm.

I believe the 9/11 attacks were the result of a U.S. government conspiracy. Governments throughout history have used terror attacks on their own people, and then blamed the attacks on others to get the people’s support to justify going to war. Afghanistan, Iraq, and soon probably Iran. They had nothing to do with 9-11. Our government was behind the whole thing.

JoeyNuggetz, no building has ever been hit by a fully fueled commercial airliner at 500mph either. Comparing two very different events gets us nowhere.

The only redeeming value of the film is that it helps us sort out the crackpots from people who are still in possession of their mental faculties. I’ve heard people say, “But it really makes you think…”, to which I can only respond, “Think about what? about twisting facts, spinning lies, and ignoring truths?”

Loose Change has been extensively debunked in Wikipedia and various links that can be found there.

One thing is certain: The U.S. is not simply a hapless victim of box-cutter wielding camel jockeys.

Let’s just use a little logical thinking, here for a second. If Ashcroft was in on the plot, then why would he stop flying commercial planes? Clearly he’d know which ones to avoid, right? I mean, if he’s flying out of DC, the only plane he’s gotta worry about is AA77.

Ditto with the supposed call to Willie Brown from Dr. Rice. If she knew, why would she tell Willie not to fly that day; no planes from San Francisco were hijacked.

I also used to discard the “conspiracy theories” until I read this from a respected professor of physics:

http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

It will open your eyes too!

Note: Factually challenged efforts like “loose change” have caused more harm to the 9/11 truth movement. Stick with the scientists like Dr. Jones.

>> Loose Change has been extensively debunked in Wikipedia

Now THAT’s funny!

If you like Wikipedia, go see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmHm0rGns4I

If It was a Government plot the NY Times would have leaked it by now.

Chris, you just lost a lot of credibility with me.

Michele – August 8, 2006 @ 6:46 pm

I believe the 9/11 attacks were the result of a U.S. government conspiracy. Governments throughout history have used terror attacks on their own people, and then blamed the attacks on others to get the people’s support to justify going to war. Afghanistan, Iraq, and soon probably Iran. They had nothing to do with 9-11. Our government was behind the whole thing.

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Uhhhh, are you kidding? This isn’t the middle-ages when some King tells us that 200 miles away in the kindom (a virtually unreachable location in those days) some other kindom burned down the village!!! This happened LIVE ON TV??? Were any of you watching this? Did anyone one of you know anyone on the planes? (My hand is in the air)

You really believe in this day and age that if there were ANYTHING to the idea that the government blew up the buildings the media wouldn’t be ALL OVER IT?? Or, are you telling me that they are “in” with the whole thing. Like the MSM (main stream media) wouldn’t like to bring down the current president every day… Don’t you think they would have plastered this all over the front pages of the Times?

Learn how to do some research.

Uhhhh, are you kidding? This isn’t the middle-ages when some King tells us that 200 miles away in the kindom (a virtually unreachable location in those days) some other kindom burned down the village!!! This happened LIVE ON TV??? Were any of you watching this? Did anyone one of you know anyone on the planes? (My hand is in the air)

You really believe in this day and age that if there were ANYTHING to the idea that the government blew up the buildings the media wouldn’t be ALL OVER IT?? Or, are you telling me that they are “in� with the whole thing. Like the MSM (main stream media) wouldn’t like to bring down the current president every day… Don’t you think they would have plastered this all over the front pages of the Times?

Learn how to do some research.

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Uhhhh, No I’m not kidding. Yes I was watching, No I did not know anyone on the planes. Yes I really believe the government was involved. No I don’t think the MSM is telling us the truth. I also belive the are going to pull off another terror attack to start another war in Iran. Call me crazy, I do not care.

Wake up people! Our country is going down the tubes!

Watch the video Martial Law 9/11
Available For Free Download
Google video has entire film online.

Uhhhh, No I’m not kidding. Yes I was watching, No I did not know anyone on the planes. Yes I really believe the government was involved. No I don’t think the MSM is telling us the truth. I also belive the are going to pull off another terror attack to start another war in Iran. Call me crazy, I do not care.

Wake up people! Our country is going down the tubes!

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Okay, what reasearch have YOU done (and I’m not talking about the worthless internet movies referred to so many times)???? Tell me why you’ve been CONVINCED by the research you’ve done and what evidence YOU have that you use to convice others.

I’m really hoping you aren’t simply being spoon-fed with the slop in the media but instead you have hard evidence and research to back up your beliefs.

I’m always open to debating and to having someone change my mind if they think I’m wrong. I have the evidence and research to back up my beliefs.

Do you?

Like I said before this is what believe. Below is a part of an article on 9/11 by Deck Deckert

“They believe, for example, that on 9/11 some clown named Osama bin Laden picked up his cell phone in a cave in Afghanistan and directed 19 Muslims, none of them professional pilots, to hijack four airliners and fly them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, thereby bringing down three steel-skeleton skyscrapers, the only time in world history that has ever happened”………………………….
http://www.swans.com/library/art12/rdeck068.html

If You Get Your News From the Corporate Media:
Just Shut Up and Listen!!!

http://tvnewslies.org/html/shut_up_and_listen.html

Michele – August 28, 2006 @ 7:40 am

Like I said before this is what believe. Below is a part of an article on 9/11 by Deck Deckert

“They believe, for example, that on 9/11 some clown named Osama bin Laden picked up his cell phone in a cave in Afghanistan and directed 19 Muslims, none of them professional pilots, to hijack four airliners and fly them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, thereby bringing down three steel-skeleton skyscrapers, the only time in world history that has ever happened�………………………….
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Oh please…..

You make me wait 10 days, checking back time after time, disappointed in not seeing a challenging response posted by you, and this is the best you can do???? A quote from some wacky blog on the internet? Exactly the opposite thing I was asking for when we exchanged earlier? You do understand that heat effects steel, right?

“However, the building was not able to withstand the intense heat of the jet fuel fire. While it was impossible for the fuel-rich, diffuse-flame fire to burn at a temperature high enough to melt the steel, its quick ignition and intense heat caused the steel to lose at least half its strength and to deform, causing buckling or crippling. This weakening and deformation caused a few floors to fall, while the weight of the stories above them crushed the floors below, initiating a domino collapse.” (http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html)

I didn’t tell you to go to a stupid blog (oh wait, that’s what we’re on….).. I asked you to provide me; in fact I’m begging you to provide me with evidence to convince me you were right.

You failed.

As has every other person like you who tried to convince anyone that 9/11 happened by some “x-files” like black ops group bent on controlling America (or whatever). The next thing you might send me is that you believe that the plane on video hitting the first tower fired missiles into the tower like those clueless people at serendipity? (http://www.serendipity.li/wot/aa11.html)

For the last few weeks, and up until the anniversary of 9/11, you will have the opportunity to watch and read several things that might educate you more then some loser posting worthless information on a blog (no offense, Chris). I beg you to avail yourself of the opportunity to grow and open your mind.

It will allow you to see that most people don’t look at it like it happened over a phone call from a cave and then BAMMM, the next day it happened. It will allow you to understand the process, see over the years how it advanced and was missed (yes, missed) by the government. I hope you will look at all the information and try to be open, because only from ignorance like I’ve seen posted in this string do beliefs like this find root.

I feel sorry for the future if this type of research and evidence is all that face us down the road.

I have to keep telling myself that there are people that believe in nonsense. In fact, you may have heard of “The Elvis Factor”.

“10 percent of the people in America believe that Elvis is still alive. 8% of the people believe that if you send him a letter, he will answer it”.

Enough said……

Michele; I’m prepared to continue to send you more and more to try to convince you that I’m right. If your prepared to have your mind opened and for you to “possibly” be proven wrong, SAY THE WORD!!!! Or, if you can prove me wrong, I’m open to the argument…..

I’d like to comment on Mike’s reply to Michele.

Obviously Mike you haven’t viewed the outstanding and important documentary Loose Change Part Duex, if you had you would realize that you were simply talking out of your southern most extremities.

Not only do the producers of this very important work capture the horrors of that day they illuminate the Bush Administrations culpability.

Can you explain away the laws of physics? Can you explain away explosions that are seen detonating along the face of the towers as they implode? Can you explain away the very odd behavior of the family members that had made “supposed” cell phone calls to their loved ones when we know it’s impossible to make such calls from planes traveling at those altitudes? You demand research and proof from Michele, yet you offer no answer’s to these vital questions.

I agree with you regarding the “MSM” as you refer to them as they are reporting from a very biased standpoint; they help no one, but to rain down vitriol on Michele for simply stating what she believes is taking simple discussion too far.

You sound as if you swallow everything the Bush Administration doles out, and to me that’s the biggest tragedy in this whole sad 9/11 episode. That people like yourself are so gullible that you blind yourself to the truth and the truth is we have a corrupt government who’s capable of just about any evil.

I urge you to study Loose Change and research its truths.

Wow, Suri… You are obviously as “well read” as your friend Michele. Another addition to “the Elvis Factor”.

Once again, the only thing you can do is quote a WELL KNOWN, WELL CHALLENGED fringe video… Why is it that when I ask for “hard evidence” and not some speculation from an obvious uninformed source (video maker), it goes unanswered.

Some info on Loose Change: The film producer, Korey Rowe, claimed in an interview, “We know there are errors in the documentary, and we’ve actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves.�

The NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology has released a point-by-point rebuttal of many of the theories you hold dear. You can find the information here; http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Yes, I watched Loose Change. I have viewed all the “X-FILES” type sites and videos out there in my research. I also looked at MSM (Time, Newsweek, Newspapers, Trade Journals, etc), as well as scientific papers on the subject. It took me over two years. I was open when I was researching to the arguments you and Michele offer.

From what I hear from you and Michele, you are not. You do not research alternate sources. You take one or two fringe videos and websites and assume they are fact.

It certainly appears to me that you didn’t read my previous response. I provided a direct link to a web site that explains exactly the action you describe. Before you respond with nonsense, try offering up something more then the person you are defending is offering.

Instead of regurgitating your single source of information, take my advice (and hopefully Michele will also) and do “just a little more research” from a few RESPECTABLE sources to open your mind.

The “explosions� you claim to have seen were explained in MANY, MANY presentations. Not only in the link I provided, but in several papers written, specials presented by National Geographic, Time, Newsweek, The NYT, Discovery Channel, etc quoting the builder of the WTC himself, as well as structural engineers and architects and the National Fire Protection Institute.

If you spent ANY TIME WHAT-SO-EVER studying the way the WTC was built, you will see how the Domino-Style collapse occurred.

I’m prepared to debate you and Michele at any time with the evidence I have. Are you?

In closing, I urge you (as you urged me at then end of your statement) to OPEN YOUR EYES to the other information out there. I urge you to PROVE the truths (or expose the lies)….

So Mike, let me get this straight, your sources for rebuttal to Loose Change (you only provide one website) are .gov sites? You’ve got to be kidding. So let me see, if the government engineered 911, wouldn’t it be common sense that the government would also manufacture documentation to legitimize their actions? Do you expect the perpetrators to expose themselves by stating the exact amount of Level 10 Ez-Thro Dynamite used in the demolition? Come on, this can’t be beyond even someone with your limited intelligence to understand.

No Mike, your sources are tainted, just like everything the Bush Administration tries to peddle, of which I’m sure you’re a frequent shopper. Saddam had WMD’s and Bush is “upholding” the constitution by wire-tapping Americans all in name of keeping us safe, boobs like you just nod and sappily accept your marching orders.

Your naiveté astounds me. Here you’re presented with credible evidence and all you can do is quote what the government hands you. You say you exhaustively researched all of the questions, of which there are many surrounding 911 but my friend you haven’t even scratched the surface. Put away your conventional thinking and take your research to the next level.

This is the most overwhelming conspiracy that has ever been perpetrated on the world and you’re content to sit back and let it happen, just like you probably were in 2000 when Bush stole the election from the rightfully elected Al Gore. Keep drinking from the tainted well of this phony administration, I imagine after awhile even your bloated belly will grow sour with discontent, the same discontent that most of us have been feeling for a long time.

Suri,

As my final visit to this site, let me say that I apologize. I didn’t realize you couldn’t read. Forgive me. You are obviously only capable of clicking on a link and not doing any research for yourself. I’m sorry, I misunderstood.

Allow me to retort to your ramblings….

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No Mike, your sources are tainted, just like everything the Bush Administration tries to peddle, …
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I see…. Your intentions are clear. You are simply so bitter about the current government that you are willing to believe ANYTHING. What sources did you look at besides the ONE is provided the link on?

I’m sorry that you didn’t understand why I provided that ONE link. It was to show you that there are OTHER explanations for your misguided beliefs. Then I asked you and Michele (and others like you) to do YOUR OWN RESEARCH. You didn’t!!!!

Do you think that Popular Mechanics is a government puppet? Are they “IN” on the whole conspiracy? Here is a link to their site: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Again, this is ONE LINK. It isn’t the ONLY information out there.

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Your naiveté astounds me.
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Ditto!!!!!

Again, besides ONE fringe video, what evidence have you provided? If you have one of your parents go to the other posts I’ve submitted to read them to you, (since you obviously can’t read) you will hear them say that there are several other sources I’ve directed you to. DO SOME RESEARCH!!!

If you are capable of typing a few words in to Google (unless they are also part of the conspiracy…), you can do some research on your own instead of sitting in a dark room watching Loose Change over and over. What about what I quoted from the maker of LCPD? No response because it might cause your fragile world to tremble……

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This is the most overwhelming conspiracy that has ever been perpetrated on the world and you’re content to sit back and let it happen, just like you probably were in 2000 when Bush stole the election from the rightfully elected Al Gore.
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Ahhhh, now it’s clear.

You are a perfect Elvis Factor candidate.

You detest the current government SO much that you refuse to look further then the ONE trash video you seem to think is gospel.

You obviously aren’t capable of having an open mind. If you look further then Change, you MIGHT be shown something that will upset the beliefs you hold dear. You might find evidence that causes the delicate world you’ve created in your mind to come crashing down around you (or, maybe it will cause the government to blow it up like they did the WTC, right????).

But there isn’t any chance of you doing any research. You have built in your mind a world where the government is evil and terrorists are the good guys. Okay, I accept that you aren’t capable of learning. You DON’T have an open mind.

I’m sorry. I’m sorry for you and for others like you. You obviously can’t debate. You can’t provide sources for your arguments. You can’t back up your beliefs with anything other then Loose Change (what a joke…). All you can do is argue emotion, not logic.

When provided with opportunities to debate, you fail. You ignore other things cited by me and in other responses and simply argue that Loose Change is right and everyone else is wrong.

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Keep drinking from the tainted well of this phony administration, I imagine after awhile even your bloated belly will grow sour with discontent, the same discontent that most of us have been feeling for a long time.
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I assure you I am already discontented, with this ONE SIDED argument.

Don’t bother replying…. It’s only me and you reading this string anyway.

Good luck.

So you’re letting me have the last word, so unlike a Bushie. Well ok, I’ll take it.

You seem genuinely sincere in your beliefs in the Bush Administration and all they have to offer, death, lies, demolition of the Constitution and neocon domination of the rest of the planet. You have to see that you are no better than the Islamic extremists that also threaten our way of life. As a matter of fact, followers like you Mike are even more dangerous in that you blindly endorse the covert actions of your leaders. You seem to be exhausted in dealing with me, and I would expect that coming from someone who supports leaders that are exhausted with negotiating with anyone and everyone on a global scale just because they hold a different belief system.

You say you want proof, you say you want a defense for my beliefs, well here you go sucker. ALL of the Popular Mechanics assertions are very effectively defended at 911truth.org, and if you want pure truth check out septembereleventh.org, there is a wonderful article on the engineering related to the WTC collapse.

Want some more? Communitycurrency.com has some very compelling articles on the science behind 911.

I can give you volumes of information pointing to the plot and who’s behind it. What do you have? More .gov hogwash, Popular Mechanics (they should stick to the latest engine thermodynamics improvements) and your stupid embarrassment of a president. Not much if you ask me.

It’s so frustrating to read posting by idiots like you…oops…I mean sheep like you. Keep bah, bah, bahing and marching to slaughter.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Not one source from your side has defended the repeated spike on “put” options for United and American Airlines. Please someone give me a coherent argument for this!!!

And they all fell silent…

Mike? Mike? Mike?

It figures.

Well Suri, you taunt me and now you, like all you liberal demagogue’s (since you don’t know what that is, look @ http://www.dictionary.com) will be proven wrong again……

We’ve bashed each other about our political sides (although you are wrong if you believe what you seem to think about my political views), let’s keep it to the facts. It’s clear we aren’t in agreement about the government so I want to focus on your lack of knowledge on science and leave the politics out of it.

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You seem to be exhausted in dealing with me, and I would expect that coming from someone who supports leaders that are exhausted with negotiating with anyone and everyone on a global scale just because they hold a different belief system.
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Ok? Not sure where this is coming from??? You’re saying we should negotiate with the terrorists? Just how long do you expect to negotiate with anyone before you have to take action? From that statement you must be the type that is okay with being pushed around by the town bully without ever finally drawing a line and acting. You’re type makes most of America sick….. Grow a backbone…..

I know, you’d rather that the UN (along with all the criminals running it) try to work on the problem. We’ll all be dead before anything is done. They are as worthless as your arguments.

As far as your other websites (911truth.org, septembereleventh.org) both rely on attack and no specifics. I’ve looked at both before (and again while writing this response). In fact, spetembereleventh.org is actually using information provided by Dr. Steven Jones, a soon-to-be FORMER professor at BYU (put on leave since he is a clear NUT). The University itself is challenging his lies.

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Want some more? Communitycurrency.com has some very compelling articles on the science behind 911.
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Nice try, this web site doesn’t exist as a legitimate site. It refers you to financial help.

Hey, I can refer you to a bunch of worthless web addresses to make my response look good to… how about http://www.suri-is-a-sucker.com, or http://www.believe-worthless-stuff.org. Does that help me make my point? I guess in your eyes it does…

Perhaps you are used to people on your side that don’t bother checking the drivel you spew. (again, since you don’t know what “drivel” is, I’ll give you the definition: childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense)

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I can give you volumes of information pointing to the plot and who’s behind it.
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No, you can’t. No, you haven’t. You’ve provided me with ALL THE SAME STUFF. You haven’t provided “volumes of� ANYTHING!!! No REAL research. A bunch of fringe web sites that have all been exposed by legitimate means.

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Oh yeah, one more thing. Not one source from your side has defended the repeated spike on “put� options for United and American Airlines. Please someone give me a coherent argument for this!!!
******************************************************

Again, ARE YOU KIDDING??? There have been HUNDREDS of articles posted on this subject? THIS PROVES YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF DOING ANY RESEARCH!!!

I guess since you aren’t capable of understanding any argument against your “unable to defend” position, no matter how many web sites I direct you to, no matter how many articles I point out, no matter what I present, you can’t be open to it.

This was my point. This is what I meant when I said “I was through with this one-sided argument”.

I’m used to arguing with mature adults, not pre-teen children who believe what they hear on M-TV.

Nice try…. (actually, no it isn’t.)

POOR TRY!!!!!

What happened to this in my final visit to this site? What happened to don’t bother replying? I’m going to pick up my wittle toys and go home…WAH, WAH, WAH…

Don’t you dare call me a liberal you conservative horses ass!!!! I voted for George W. Bush both times!!!! And up until about a year ago thought he would go down in history as this one of the nations greatest leaders. But I, unlike you, are capable of thinking for myself.

I to was a believer in the Bush Administration and their sincere efforts in the WOT. I believed and still do to some extent in the invasion of Iraq because of their terrorist affiliations’ and WMDs. But simply put, not all of the administrations assertions have panned out. Things are not making much sense anymore, I’m trying very hard to justify my belief in Bush, but some of the things he says and does challenge the reasons I believed he was the right man for the job.

Then Loose Change comes around and BLAM!!!! I’m hit square in the face with more evidence that things are just not right in this country. And given that the conservatives have been running the show, what else am I to believe?

Ok, I admit, you have made some very valid points as to why some of the material in Loose Change maybe far-fetched. Perhaps 93 did go down in Shanksville (although I believe it was shot down) and maybe it wasn’t a missile that hit the Pentagon (I wish the CIA would release the video from surveillance camera’s) but you can’t say ALL of it is misguided.

I’m sorry I’ve gotten a little upset with my posts, but I guess it comes out of frustrations with IRAN and why we don’t just blow them up and the fact that our country is being overrun by illegal’s. It’s really bad here in South FL.

I really was a staunch conservative, and maybe I need to return to my roots. At least we got ourselves two really good Supreme Court judges and hopefully the end to abortion soon.

I’m going to do some further research on the sites you’ve listed, it’s just that there’s so much conflicting information, it gets hard to figure it all out.

I’m trying.