Mac Myths

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Ok – maybe most business users are tied to their Windows PC ways, but, I am curious: 1. What premium? There is no premium any more. 2. What popular software package is unavailable for the Mac? Maybe, SAS for consumers? Thisstrawmanneeds to be thrown out along with (1). 3. What peripherals don’t work with the Mac these days? The cue-cat? I am sure there are some obscure peripherals that no one uses. And then they wonder why they get complaints!

Ok – maybe most business users are tied to their Windows PC ways, but, I am curious: 1. What premium? There is no premium any more. 2. What popular software package is unavailable for the Mac? Maybe, SAS for consumers? Thisstrawmanneeds to be thrown out along with (1). 3. What peripherals don’t work with the Mac these days? The cue-cat? I am sure there are some obscure peripherals that no one uses. And then they wonder why they get complaints!

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Macs are so much more expensive than similar PC’s. Also you cant fix a mac if there are problems with hardware.

Well, to tell the truth, I don’t like Mac’s much either, and I’ve seen some Mac fanboy coming from here on my news feeds and I thought it time to chime in. And what better place than where faults of Mac will be discussed anyway? Alas, I fall on the other end of the spectrum from your flamer above. I like my hardware cheap (I built my desktop, so I can pick out cheap parts for things I don’t need to be über) and my OS free. I feel that Mac is at least a step in the right direction for how a computer should really be used because it at least can get people more accustomed to the *nix way of doing things rather than the CE/ME/NT way that M$ has been pushing for how long.

The biggest problem with fanboy-ing anything is that you fail to see the downsides of what you are praising. I’ll admit there are rough points to running Fedora (or any distro for that matter), and I’ve submitted bugs that I’ve noticed in KDE and Fedora. I’ve hit my share of annoyances, but with Fedora 8 coming out soon, I am waiting to see how things have smoothed over and finally with the big KDE4 release coming up most of those annoyances with the apps I use should disappear as well.

One thing about pushing Mac for the casual user is the same as pushing Windows for the casual user; if all you’re going to do is check email and do some browsing of the Internet, why pay for something that allows you to interface with the hardware at all? Linux is free and always will be. It allows that, so why pay a lot for expensive hardware and software? Fedora 7 runs okay with KDE on a 666Mhz Intel Celeron with 192MB of RAM. Can Mac run its latest incarnation on 7-8 year old hardware? XP sure as heck would never dream of it, and forget Vista. It cost me $70 to replace the broken/missing stuff and that’s including S&H. That was the extent of the cost beyond the original cost years ago. It ended with the hardware.

Another thing that I see is the slew of versions that are offered for OS X and Vista. Why so many? Why confuse people as to which version of an OS they should need? Fedora comes with everything on one DVD and you don’t even have to install everything. Even if you did, I think it only comes out to 9GB of hard disk space total. My install is currently taking up 11.67GB and that’s with applications and everything. WINE games, media, and other random files I have laying around take up 60GB, but that is just what anyone would need for such things. If I remember right, the default image of Vista given out here was around 50GB. And in a few weeks, some said they were down to less than 20GB of space left. And they didn’t know why. It just disappeared. I’d like to know disk usage stats on the default install of OS X Leopard.

I’d like to harp on his #7 he listed. Where could someone testdrive a Mac? I could ask those around me, but supposed someone didn’t have access to one. The closest Mac store to me would probably have been about 2 hours away, so that isn’t exactly a viable option for some. That leaves Live discs. Now I’ve seen bootable XP discs before, but they’re not exactly common. Mac would need to have the Mac hardware available and in that case you’d already have a Mac. So how to test drive it? Linux has Live discs and they work fine. No touching of your hard drive and you get to experience most of what Linux has to offer.

Also, to reiterate the previous poster, you can’t fix a Mac if something breaks because it has drivers only for what is actually in it. If something breaks on a box running Linux or Windows, there’s a good chance you’ll get the driver. Thing with Windows is that it seems to think that every flash drive in the universe needs a different driver when they should all really use the same one.

In addition, I don’t really like the idea of supporting a company that likes to shun its users for the prospect of money (iPhone) or thinks that it knows better than everyone outside its doors (closed software, add hardware for Apple). However, that is just a personal thing that I feel, and it is more of a reason against using (or rather, paying for) the OS rather than actually rating its quality.

–SuperKirb

Please forgive if I appear to be insulting in my comment (that is not my intent), but several of these ‘reasons’ are far to ambiguous to address properly and those that are not are just plain wrong.

1. No genuine power user will ever be insulted by an easy to use OS. Ease of use equals POWER! The definition of a true power user is one who accomplishes great things with little effort.

2. I am not a mac user so I can not speak to what games are available for the mac. As for not using Direct X, that is a very good thing. Direct X is a Windows kludg intended to improve video and 3D performance by providing direct access to video and audio hardware (bypassing the OS) for programs that support it. Video and 3D acceleration using the Graphics Library aka OpenGL serve the purpose far better since many video cards support this in hardware. Finally, Cedega supports many of the high end games for play under OSX or Linux so the game argument is rapidly becoming a mute point.

3.The term ‘popular software’ is far too subjective to be properly addressed. Any software that is popular to a Windows user will have little or no value for someone who uses a different OS. From what I have seen at the Apple store, there is little missing from the Mac other than perhaps some special interest (mission specific) software. For most users, if it is not there, you do not need it.

4. This item is far too ambiguous. When the writer speaks of ‘two screens’, is the number of displays that can be connected to the computer being discussed, or does this refer to virtual desktops? In either case, the majority of users will never be concerned with this ability (does Windows even support virtual desktps?).

5. OSX is based on BSD (a Berkley Unix derivative). This OS has been in use on high end equipment and mission critical systems for longer than PC’s have existed. I do not know what stereotypes the writer is speaking of, but if I were to choose an OS purely based on stereotype, BSD would have to be near the top of my list.

6. Finally, a semi-valid point. Macs are more expensive than PC’s. If dollars and cents are your primary criteria when choosing a computer, get a PC – and put Linux on it.

7. And when have you ever been able to try before you buy a PC? The fact is that you can go into your local Apple store and ‘play around’ with their Mac’s to your hearts content. They even encourage you to do just that, and ask if you have any questions after you have been using the machine fro a while. I have done tech support for a Cable Internet provider, and have supported Mac users in a three way conversation between myself, the customer, and a Mac tech on several occasions. I have found the Mac techs to be polite, knowledgable, and genuinely interested in helping their user.

After all this, I want to let it be known that I am not a Mac user, or a Windows user. I use Linux on a PC because it best meets my needs, and I think that is the real point. The OS that is best for you may not be the one that is best for me. If Windows works best for you, then feel free to use it. On the other hand, if you do not get any ‘Wow!’ moments with the next new version, maybe it is time to do a bit of shopping (but that will have to be your decision).

I switched 10 years ago with no regrets and I feel at home in the two worlds.

1. Please define “power user” and what’s wrong with ease of use?
2. True, but that’s not Apples fault.
3. Please define “popular software”. I run all sorts of professional apps and I don’t miss anything.
4. You don’t seem to get around very much. Maybe you should focus on graphical environments. I used to have three CRTs attached to my Mac, which got replaced by two large TFTs. VGA and DVI-port are standard on newer Macs.
5. So..?
6. True, but manufacturing quality is higher and they’re in service at least twice as long. We’re still happily running an old PowerPC 7350/180 for miscellaneous tasks.

PS.
Why should I flame this guy? These are valid questions.
7. Can you “try before you buy” Windows Vista?

LOL, ignorance is bliss. Why should I or anyone else waste time repeating ourselves over and over? It’s the same ignorant rhetoric over and over, at least come up with something more creative! Only one (games) is even remotely an argument. Anyone actually interested in a Mac could easily debunk the other’s as total myth with about 5 min using google, or visiting a local apple store, or spending a minute on apple.com That email is the perfect example of trolling. nuff said

Many comparisons have shown that while Macs are not cheaper than PC’s, they are pretty much comparable feature for feature. Especially if you take into account the entire picture including software included. And if you go further and look at total cost of ownership, you would find them to be cheaper in any time frame greater than a year(factoring in spyware, virus prevention software, etc and time required to control them).

Mac vs. PC is kind of like arguing about religion or politics. There is no real way of convincing everyone as there are a lot of strong feelings that color the arguments. All I can say personally is that I used only PC’s with no interest in a Mac for many of the reasons given around the net. The day I bought my Mac was the day I went to buy a PC laptop. I went to all the usual places – Best Buy, Sams, Circuit City – and there was not a single person I met in half a day shopping that knew anywhere as much about there products as I did. Kind of disheartening. I walked (for the very first time ever) into and Apple store 45 minutes before closing at the encouragement of my daughter. I was greeted by a “genius” that withing 20 minutes had convinced me to buy a Mac, not because he was pushy, but because he knew the answers to all my difficult questions. And I could lay my hands on the Mac and try it out, fully loaded with software and on the internet. I bought the Mac that night. That was over a year ago. I have no plans to purchase another PC. My next purchase will be an iMac.

1. The Mac UI is so easy to use, it’s insulting to a power user.

- No, insulting to a power user is constantly asking you if you want to do things even though you have turned off or clicked on no to things “you’re firewall is turned off” I know, cause I shut the damn thing off.. “do you want to search the net for drivers? yes every time? yes this one time? or not this time?” where’s my “don’t bother me with this again” option?

2. Macs are bad for popular games because few games are made for Mac and they don’t do DirectX.

- yes and no, many of the big games are directx only, tho some development houses are polite enough to make a mac version, but it is expensive to develope your game for more than one graphics engine… tho, the biggest game in the world (WoW) runs on a mac.

3. Most popular software won’t run on a Mac, and there is seldom a good equivalent.

- I wouldn’t say most, I’d say some.. my example here is the vpn software we use at work, there is no mac version and the mac alternatives don’t work.
Tho, if you’re talking the likes of adobe apps or office apps then the mac will do you fine.

4. I haven’t seen a mac with more than two screens (Three for a laptop); do they go higher?

- yes, just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.. they use the same hardware and multiple monitor support exists for up to 5 x 30″ displays

5. Since OSX runs on some sort of *nix base, it can be lent to all the *nix stereotypes.

- and they are what exactly? that they are all command line driven? be a bit more specific ;P

6. Macs are more expensive than similarly-spec’d PCs.

- yes, yes they are… but then, they do have their mac mini “budget line” that isn’t too expensive. Still, the 2 markets are different economically speaking and so are hard to compare.

7. Even with all the great advances made in the past few years, one cannot “try before you buy” a Mac

- there’s always in store models that you can have a play about with, but then.. there isn’t really any “try before you buy” options for pc’s… there’s an evaluation of windows, but then you’d still need the pc to run it on.

how about we have some of the other popular myths such as

Macs are invulnerable to viruses
you can’t be creative with a pc, only a mac
a mac will increase your desirability to the opposite sex
a mac will cure world hunger
a mac will increase your length, girth and staying power ;)

ok, so only the top two are to be paid attention to – the others are a bit of satire ;)

I prefer the Mac, but I certainly wouldn’t flame Chris’s anonymous reader. I think he’s just having a bit of fun. Numbers (1) and (5) are clearly jokes. His item (6) is, in fact, incorrect, but more amusingly totally at odds with his item (2), since gamers aren’t worrying about cost. So I think while he may be semi-serious with some of these points, he’s actually making a joke.

Now, Macs _were_ a little more expensive, but the truth of the matter is that if you take a Mac and then spec up something from Dell or someone to roughly match, then, at the moment, the price is roughly similar. In some cases the Mac is actually less. Scot Finnie at Computerworld, and various other people, have checked this out and found that.

And who’d want a Dell, anyway, now Dell has been caught lowering the quality of the sourcing of its parts. :-)

Of course, you won’t find a Mac at all at the very low end of the market, because Apple is, apparently, not interested in competing there. Steve Jobs said recently that there’s stuff they just won’t offer, because they’d be ashamed to offer anything to people that they thought wasn’t good enough. Fair enough. Most of us have to cope with tight budgets at one time or another in our lives, and at such times one might have to get a PC. Needs must when the devil drives. But hardware at the bottom end of the market is going to be disappointing — and probably unreliable — in use anyway. But if you have just a little more to spend, then Apple certainly will have something competitively specced at your price point.

I’ll return to item (2) — the gaming — and point out that if someone (a) is a gamer but (b) uses a computer instead of a games console, and (c) doesn’t want to run Windows in Boot Camp, then he’d better not buy a Mac. I wonder how many people this covers.

I would like to say something to the related comment “they don’t do DirectX”. And that’s **but they do do Open GL**. Actually rumour has it that Leopard has implemented the latest version of it — “the latest OpenGL 2.1 specification” [Apple Insider]. But I don’t know if that’s true — perhaps Chris does. I think what’s important to notice there is that Apple is using an open specification. Sorry if I offend some readers who like Windows by saying it, but Microsoft has gamed users on technologies, and on formats, for years. It’s one of the ways by which they maintain their monopoly. Have people noticed what they’ve been up to with Office formats now that OASIS’s ODF format threatens their monopoly — i.e., their ability to keep their hand in your pocket — because it offers a truly open and interoperable standard for office documents that any software company can implement? I’ve noted some of the shenanigans, and I’ve not been favourably impressed. Currently, part of ISO is grinding to a halt because of what Microsoft has done:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/16/207205

At least if more people buy Macs and that leads more developers to write more games using OpenGL, the games won’t stay tied to the Mac. Because the technology is open, it will be relatively easy for the developers to port them to other platforms. Buy products that use only the closed DirectX technology and you’re lashing yourself to Microsoft’s chariot wheels.

Timmy, that is just so wrong. Yes you can fix Macs and no they are no longer “much more expensive” then simular PCs.

I picked up my first Mac, a 17″ iMac Intel Core 2 Duo with 1G ram and 320G HD for $999 CDN. A simular PC is around the same with a 17″ LCD unless you go for a clone with noname hardware.

I have changed the HD, CD Drive and even power supply in my iMac and have changed the Video, added a new sound card, more hard drives and a second burner to my Mac Pro.

As for the questions asked, please show me a “PC” that you can “Try before you buy”. I have never seen one. As for major games, EA and Blizzard both have Mac versions of their games and you will see many more companies soon to follow. Games that don’t work can be run in Windows using Bootcamp.

As for screens, you can fit a max of 4 PCI Express Video cards in a Mac Pro and since there are 4 port cards available for Mac, I would asume you can use at least 16 monitors depending on thier size and configuration.

I guess that’s why my PC buddies immediately go out and upgrade all their newest hardware to bring it up to the specs of my Mac. Once that’s done…all discount savings from “Dell and Crew” are gone. Sure you can buy a $300 machine…but who would want the components inside. They’re just overstock in the warehouse that they have to get rid of before the newest stuff goes to the shelves.

As for fixing hardware issues…never been a problem for me. I’ve been adding RAM and hard drives, since I switched in 2001. I even upgraded the CDRW/DVD combo drive to a DVD-RW/DVD-DL drive this year. Sounds like upgrades and “fixes” are available if you need ‘em. For those who need to, PCI cards and video card upgrades are plenty as well.

As they say on MythBusters…Another myth…BUSTED! :-)

If I don’t like Windows (Vista anyone?) I have many other options. What other options do you have with a Mac?

The software Mac os x 10.5 is better then Vista. And please explain to me why people keep saying macs (the computers) can’t play games cause when wanna play games (lans) i boot into windows and for every thing else i do in mac (yes there is more to life then gaming). Also you can upgrade hardware + the apple hardware appears (based on the comps at school) to be of higher quality and don’t brake down as much as the windows computers. The ui is very easy to use but don’t let that fool you the system does have terminal where you can geek to your harts content (more then with windows) and the developer tools that come with the os are brilliant what developer tools come with windows?

I do sympathise with this guy’s seven points, I’m a PC power user, Hardcore gamer, Linux enthusiast and must confess I’m completely ignorant about anything Mac, I haven’t even used a Mac since the late 80’s (wasn’t impressed).
I can see where he’s coming from but I doubt all those points are valid. So, these are my personal points:

1) No matter what people say there is only one platform for hardcore computer gaming, and that’s Windows. I must emphasize “Hardcore”, but even for the merely serious gamer windows is the best choice because its the native platform.

2) You don’t need to worry about compatibility with Windows XP, Its actually hard to find something that doesn’t run in windows. I look at the toolbar on my laptop and I see about 30 tools and applications, many of which I wouldn’t even begin to know where to look for Mac equivalents if there are such things and I’m not talking generic stuff like Email or IM.

3) I know windows inside out, Why would I want to discard that power knowledge?

OK, so I admit these points apply to me specifically and not the average user. That leads me to point 4

4) The average normal user has some windows experience and no Mac experience… Why should they bother learning something new? Its not like its free which might be a compelling reason.

My last comment was deleted or something, but I guess that most people get the idea, I’ll brief:

1. I find both Mac and PC easy to use. Power users will want to customize the OS more, but still, that doesn’t mean that OS X is not a power users OS. They both are.

2. Very true. They don’t have, and won’t have, the hardware and software. No SLI and no Crossfire (for those who say that they or someone else has done SLI for Mac, SLI technology is in the motherboard. Macs don’t have the chipset.)

3. Adobe software, MS Office, the two most used groups of proffesional software, and they are both available on both platoforms.

4. As with PCs, you can have more.

5. As ernie said.

6. Now, people will say that this isn’t true, the simple truth is, it is. I have built PCs as fast or faster than the Mac Pro for less than half the price, and you can buy systems for cheaper prices too.

7. Both PC and Apple shops let you try the systems. Every single shop that I have been to does. If you haven’t, I don’t have a clue where you shop.

As for the creativity level on the Mac being better than on the PC, no, load of rubbish. Give some proof. It is all in the mind.

This is just my two cents. A wise man once said that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I think that all popular operating systems have problems, and all have features beneficial to some users. Anyone who blindly states that brand x is better than brand y is fooling themselves, and if they are providing technical support in any way to someone they are selling their customers short. I have about 100 desktop computers and several high end Mac workstations that I support in my job as a network admin. I can tell you from experience that for some things Macs are better, and for some things Windows is better. Linux is gaining ground, and I am experimenting with setting up web servers with an eye to future expansion of my company’s web sites. I am not married to an operating system, my self worth is not tied to a feeling of superiority because of the operating system I use, and I will base my advice to my clients on what is best for them, not what is my personal favorite. Mac myths are becoming just that, but as Apple grows I see them becoming another Microsoft. They have had several quality issues recently on all their product lines, and they have made some questionable business decisions that have left their customers out in the cold. Time will tell if they can keep their corporate culture alive in the face of the pressure of larger and larger market shares. I wish both Apple and Microsoft the best of luck, and I will be using whatever tool I need to get the job done.

I recently (within the past two months) bought a PowerMac G4 off eBay, running OS X 10.4.10. I was fortunate in that this Mac came fully loaded with software licensed to the machine, so I don’t need to go looking for applications also. I’m a Windows user since 1993 and consider myself a power user. My impressions of Macs thus far:

1. Yes, they’re easy to use. They’re like being in an almost-parallel universe, though – if you’re used to Windows, things look familiar, work sort of similarly, but under the hood the similarities end. I am looking forward to learning the ‘nix base under the pretty GUI. For a power user, there’s no bigger challenge than to learn something new!

2. Not a problem from my end. I’m not a gamer, and couldn’t possibly care less what’s available for EITHER OS. As long as the graphic engine is good enough to display a Photoshop file correctly I’m fine, so you can see I’m not picky in that department.

3. For the normal PC user, what’s available in software for either platform is more than adequate for everyday functionality. For the heavy-duty user, the big name apps (Quark, the Adobe family, etc.) ARE available cross-platform – so, where’s the problem?

4. Define “screens”. How many monitors can you use at one time, seriously? How many virtual deskops can you keep track of? Don’t know about you, but my work area can’t hold more than two monitors (tiny house)!

5. Yep, OS X is ‘nix based. Given the problems we’ve all come to love in Windows – this is a BAD thing? Since when? All Linux distros have base similarities to Unix – I guess they’re open to the same “stereotypes”. Of what? Being hard to use? Didn’t we just establish that “Macs are easy to use”?

6. No argument here. That’s why I got my older machine from eBay – didn’t have the cash for a new Mac plus having to buy the software for it also.

7. Last I checked, you “try before you buy” a Windows PC the same way you do a Mac – at the store. Even with that, you’re still not going to be able to “test drive” any application that’s not preinstalled, and most of the time in the PC world stores, the computers are password locked (out of necessity, unfortunately) so that you can’t do much beyond look at the screensavers anyway. At least at the Mac store, everything on their shelves from the Mini to the newest powerhouses was on display to play with as long as you wanted, with a discreetly helpful salesperson just a holler away.

So far I’ve added a third-party PCI AirPort 802.11g wireless card clone I picked up for thirty-odd dollars, an additional 512 megs of memory (same kind as used in a PC), a generic USB 2 card I bought for five bucks, a $40 DVD-burner, stuck in an old internal ZIP drive (got a gazillion old zip disks, might as well use ‘em till they die), and easily cloned its stuffed-to-the-brim 20 gig hard drive into a larger standard IDE drive I already had literally lying around unused (the old drive is my backup since the Mac didn’t come with any discs) using the freeware version of the Mac disk-management program Super Duper. The old Mac didn’t hiccup once with any of the additions – I haven’t needed to install a single driver for any of the items listed, and it is happily surfing the ‘Net through my WPA-secured Windows-based wireless network. So I’m supposed to NOT like this?

I haven’t tossed my Windows computers (of which I have four, counting my laptop) nor do I intend to. However, no power user ever turns down learning *anything*, and the Mac is no exception. In the next few months one of the Windows machines will become a Linux box. No specific reason beyond something else new to learn – I’m still debating which distro to use for it. In this world, though, it never hurts to know as much as you can about as many things as you can :)

I’ve really been interested in purchasing a Mac since I got wind of the new macbook. Do I think it is rather expensive? Yes, but I concur that they are equipped better than a standard Windows PC. The last windows pc I bought, I spent an hour removing the trial/crapware that was included as a “value”. I found it to be especially annoying.

I have vowed that I will not by another Windows PC. Once my current computer dies, (which I hope isn’t for a while), I will purchase a macbook.

To respond to the gaming comment, most of the Mac users I know aren’t gamers. They are involved with the creative aspect of designs and such. I asked one of my friends who has a mac if he had any games for their mac. They replied, “That’s what I have a Wii for…” :)

I truly believe that the “mystery” behind a mac can be solved by more education to the customers. I mean, you can walk down the street and find 15 people that know something about a PC, but when you ask them about a Mac, they are frightful. It all comes down to the education people have about that particular product. Comparing a Mac to a Windows PC is like comparing a 2007 Honda Hybrid to a 1966 Ford Mustang. People generally know more about the mustang because more people have one and have worked on them. If you were to ask the general public how to work on a hybrid, they would display that same fearful look.

… I’m going to stop rambling now.

you know, I’m gonna take a wild stab in the dark and guess that the anonymous windows fanboy is wildpacket… do I win a halloween candy? ;)

oh, and if anyone ever wants to know, the only OS that I have a soft spot for is RISC OS.. now that os was truly innovative and well ahead of its time.

er.. wirelesspacket even… >.

Chris, another Myth is that the Mac doesnt get the Blue Screen of Death

http://technology.canoe.ca/PCWorld/2007/05/10/4169028.html

I do use a Mac at work so I spend equal time on both. The Apple Boys just like the companie’s negative and untrue advertising campaign. To me, both systems have good points, but Apple is hyped by a very small crowed

#1 is the most amazing. I remember back around ‘95 putting RedHat Linux on my PC. All worked well except the modem, and it took me two days of fiddling to the get the thing to work. I didn’t think that much of it at the time; just another geek, I guess.

What an idiot I was!

You know what I did in two days on my new 24″ iMac? Imported over four hours of video footage from 2000-2002 and created several “highlight” movies of my daughter. Not only is THIS the kind of stuff we buy computers for, but I would also argue that THIS is the kind of stuff that should truly define a “power user”. After all, where is the power in not PRODUCING anything? The UI of an OS isn’t where you create anything.

Besides, a power user in the sense that this guy implies would know that since UNIX is under the hood of OS X, he can hack and X Window to his heart’s content. Maybe he isn’t the “power user” he thinks he is.

The modem? Lost in the dust of time. Those movies? I’ll have them forever.

There is no reason to give this “argument” any thought.

“Where do we begin to debunk these theories?”

Theory implies research.

I will but a mac the day they stop putting $15 video cards on them.
(seriously, you can only swap video cards on a Mac pro… I would have to sell a kidney to buy one.)
Yes, I do play games on my PC and no, I will not buy a console.
A computer is expensive enough let alone having to buy a console to play games.
If I wanted a computer you can’t play games with, then I would buy a car that refuses to turn left…

Had to re-read #6 a few times. The key words are “similarly-spec’d PCs”, which is true enough if you are considering software, too.

However, I would point out that if you went Dell, among others, you can in fact get it cheaper with better specs, although that then opens the NVIDIA vs ATI debate and does not take software into account. So maybe it is close enough. After all, there are rebates and other price slashing things going on. That and the pricing is certainly not consistent. And then this is not including the level of OS functionality (Vista Home Premium), etc.

My wife owns a brand new iMac – it’s great, for her. Not my cup of tea, but neither is Windows either. But I think that #6 is a stretch when selling the idea to Joe User, though. Truth is often defined through an individuals own goggles and not our own way of seeing things. ;)

1. easy= good and powerful.
2. call of duty, madden 08, battlefield 2142, command and conquer 3, need for speed carbon, any thing made by blizzard.
3. have you heard of boot camp?
4. I think this qualifies as hearsay your honor
5. and obviously unix is horrible huh?
6. the fastest vista machine is a macbook pro (true and scary fact!)
7. true story from my mac buying experience. i walked into the apple store and was fiddling with the computers when the sales rep came up and asked me if he could help in any way. I asked him about firefox running on macs (though i have since switched to safari) and right on the spot he downloaded the newest version of firefox on the nearest imac for me to look at.

Like the advert says, 15,000 viruses last year and not one of them on a Mac. I’m 53 yr old now. Don’t much care for games, although I do play a few. Found a few good ones for my Mac.

The Mac is so much easier to use than any windows based computer. I set up my internet and email in just a few minutes and didn’t have any problems. There are a few gripes I have with my Mac, but far less than a PC.

This Mac just ROCKS!!!

Terry

First: Why didnt it keep me logged in when I came to this blog? UGH! Jason fix this!

Anywho that aside. All his point’s are rather dull, and unimaginative and do not deserve a long proper response.

Chris you are very kind as not to disclose this ignorant person’s name, and he would of surely received a large amount of long lengthy negative comment’s.

Then again maybe he was hoping to get some traffic off your back hmm?

2. What’s with the Directx? In my opinion, it’s just another way for Microsoft to not allow cross-platform of any game. OpenGL is used with Macs and Linux, so either game need go the direction that Blizzard is going, which is make games friendly for both PCs and Macs, or strictly move to OpenGL instead.

3. What programs are those, because Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, Gimp, Inkscape, MS Office, Firefox, Opera, Netscape, Lightwave, Blender, VLC, and Miro (formerly Democracy) all have Mac versions.

4. What use is dual monitors? After all, virtual Desktops also can relieve that clutter of multiple windows and applications running. OS X Leopard has its own version of virtual desktop software.

6. Have you only been looking at HP or have you not even tried to change the configuration of the PC on the brand’s site?

7. Really? Both the Apple stores and Apple certified resellers, like Fry’s Electronics and Best Buy, let you try out a Mac before you get one.

coming late to the debate… but…

Point 1: your joking right? ’cause I like to have my head in a vice and my hands tied in a striaght jacket when I want to open a jar of jam… ’cause I’m a power jam user man… don’t hold me back with easy to open jam jar lids…. supper glue it down, put the thread the wrong way.. lock it in a safe ’cause I’m a POWER JAM USER and anything less is insulting.

Anyway if you want to relive the archaic days of “command line is king” you can always open “terminal” and Bash away (heck I have to do this 10, 20. 50 times a day for remote managing some unix boxes… doesn’t make me feel more “L33t” or wish I could do more of this head throbbing stuff.

Point 4: Again … this is a joke… right?
going way back I remember seeing a Mac (FXII?) set up in a hard core Unix environment in the mid 90’s (when Mac OS was pre unix) it was used because it had 4 monitors – 5x 23″ monitors at that. Used for displaying a map of the entire internal network with live monitoring.
(and remember macs as far back as the SE/30 could run multiple monitors in the late 80’s – an SE/30 + Radius monitor were common sites in type setting businesses)

move on 5 or so years and I’m working at that same place with a G4 Mirror door with a dual head monitor and 2 Matrox Mystique cards running 4 monitors…. sadly the Mystiques never had drivers written for OSX so the were never loaded in to my G5 tower.

But on that I run 2×23″ monitors which actually give a better view than the 4×15″ monitors it replaced.

However 4 monitor macs (with additional dual head cards) are almost as common as muck around our organisation – some of the lucky sods in network management and in graphic design having 4 x 30″ units… and you can just keep adding extra cards and monitors until either you run out of slots or your budget implodes.

First of all the mac ui is quite intimating till you get down the learning curve. There is alot of games and in my opinion opengl is just as good in most apps as directx, The inux issue, what more stable, more secure. If their is a monitor issue I have never seen it, second the issue would be with the graphics card not the os. I have priced out apples and dells and in the most part the apples is equal to cheaper (except ram that I agree, apple charges way to much). Lastly go to an apple store or bust buy, you can try all you want their just like any other computer company.

To the LInux fanboy who commented that neither the latest Mac OS or the latest Windows versions would run on 8 year old hardware… You think Linux does? I had trouble getting some recent distos to even install on machines that are newer than that. Ubuntu in particular failed to install on a Dell laptop. And even if it does install, it is like molasses in January unless you disable lots of eye candy. In my experience, it just doesn’t work so well. Then add to that what a pain it is to get add-on hardware (like wireless cards) working. One should not have to research on the internet how to make something work, download hacks, drop to the the terminal, and edit config files just to get on a wireless network.
The Macs just work.

Timmy, this is why there are HACKINTOSHES (MacOSx86).

Also, some parts are replaceable and/or fixable. Applecare usually does the job to a certain degree, but I have to say that they only can help you if you give them ONE problem to fix. Else they will lie about it being fixed (hoping that one stone kills two birds). That of course, is flawed. But just so we’re clear, Apple laptop hardware BLOWS HARD. DON’T GET A MACBOOK OR A MACBOOK AIR. YOU WILL BE SORRY. A Macbook Pro might be okay, but I would just get a desktop at this point or a different laptop (like Acer =D) and put whatever OS you want on to it and fly like a kite.

The OS is actually my fav. but that’s just me.

The GUI for Tiger was just fine (especially if you get UNO, a theme modifier and then make it look ÜBERSEXY), but Leper (Leopard) was just overkill, and don’t even get me started on TimeMachine (that crap…)

SuperDuper! for the win.

AND IF you think that the UI is insulting to power-users, you obviously are lying like a rock, because power-users wouldn’t even bother about the UI in the first place, as long as it does not look too tacky, which IMHO it is does not.

Games? Whatever. Get WINDOZE for that.

There are good equivalents. Look deeper.

Not sure on the multiscreen, but I think they do, especially with other video cards…why not? (This ain’t my range =P)

UNIX KICKS ASS. PERIOD.

Yes they are expensive. Make a Hackintosh already?!

Bullshit. Go to an Apple outlet (store) and test one out. How much better can you get? *Tosses Macbook into trash compactor*

gg on the site, Chris.

~bm

Second the comment by bobman, which addresses one of the two big myths in favor of Macs.

Myth #1: Mac hardware is better quality than PC hardware. That was true back in the day, but the most of the components of Macs now are basically the same as those of major brand PCs. A recent Consumer’s Union survey shows a marginally higher major repair rate of Mac laptops relative to PC laptops over a 5 year span. And Mac repairs are more costly than PC repairs. Anybody who cares to find out can see that logic board problems have been plaguing Mac notebooks and iMacs for several years now. Interestingly, that’s one component that is designed by Apple. And, yes, Mac hardware is more costly relative to comparable performance PCs.

Myth #2: OSX is more stable than Windows. That’s a holdover from the Win9x days. Those were horrible OSs. I’ve experienced more freezes and PSOD (Power Switch of Death) crashes using OSX than using XP (properly maintained) or Vista. In fact, I haven’t experienced a Windows crash in years. That said, Microsoft could take a lesson from the onboard utilities package that comes with OSX. If OS maintenance isn’t made as easy as possible it will tend to be neglected, reliability will deteriorate, and users will end up hating the OS.

So at the end of the day, what is gained by paying the Mac premium? Pretty (but not more functional) hardware, and an elegant GUI. Not enough to keep me interested.

Yea well i think there are arguments for and against macs. I mean i personaly dont hold with this “macs never crash” stuff. Possibly they seldom crash, linux also seldom crashes. But not never. Also one of the most ridiculous things ive ever heard was from the mouth of a mac fanboy, conversation as follows:

me: wel yea i prefer something like solaris to a mac.
him: meh, unix sux
me: um, so what your saying is mac is better than unix and unix is crap?
him: yes
me: ..mm mac has a unix kernel. LOL

1. Usually, when someone makes fun of Macs for lack of challenge, it’s a joke. Easy is almost always good.

2. Macs can run Windows and all it’s games.

3. There is almost ALWAYS a good equivalent. And if there isn’t, there’s always running Windows in Boot Camp.

4. You’re right. But I’d rather use one screen anyway (up to 2 if it’s a laptop).

5. I don’t really know much about UNIX stereotypes, but I think Mac OS X is really good (don’t know what else to say).

6. You’re paying for quality. And remember the Megahertz myth?

7. You can at an Apple Store or Reseller. Seriously where have you been?