Growing up Catholic

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Jesus didn’t form a new religion, he formed a new church which he hoped would learn from the mistakes the old church made. The Catholic Church of late has made a great many mistakes, but this is only valid as criticism of a church, not Faith.

It’s one thing to be a member of the Catholic Church…it’s a completely different thing to be Catholic. One does not involve the other. This is where I currently am in my spiritual exploration. I heed to the foundation of the church and the teachings of Christ in the Bible. What is said in a church down the road has no impact on my Faith.

The following from Matthew 6:5-7 has helped me in my own path: “And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

The trailer looks pretty crazy, will have to see that.

I declared myself Agnostic in 2002, it’s worked out great ever since.

Dukrous, I seldom comment in my own comment stream – but I wish I had stated this in my original post: you can quote from any book you’d like, but don’t expect me to understand or acknowledge a faith-based argument if I don’t share your faith. ;)

Historically speaking, the man known as Jesus DID form a new religion.

If you consider yourself a Catholic, then you (vicariously) support the Catholic church and everything it stands for. The two are absolutely inseparable. If you feel safer calling yourself a Christian, so be it – but do yourself a favor and pick up “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins before too long.

And in my mind, that book can be viewed just as holy as the book sanctified by a council of men back in the 4th century.

I think one of the most interesting things I’ve ever heard regarding the mess in the Catholic church was somethign to the effect that even Jesus “made mistakes”… after all he did select Judas to be one of his disciples.

If one priest (Judas) can be severely flawed out of 12, imagine how many can be flawed now.

No doubt there are problems with the church – everyone in the church is human. I’m not sure exactly what I’m trying to say here but even though there have been very bad things happen in the Catholic church, it isn’t alone…every church has some kind of scandals going on… and if they haven’t they will.

Overall, I think there is more good than bad…but it only takes 1 bad apple to screw things up.

i’m not catholic but having grown up in a family full of theologians i believe i have a bit of insight into this. i don’t think that a person who is catholic automatically supports the catholic church. the catholic church might see it that way but there is no necessity for an individual follower of the catholic faith to see it that way. just as, for example, my parents’ growing up in nazi germany doesn’t automatically make them nazis. i think the only person who can legitimately decide whether they are a member of a group is the individual her or himself.

of course, if we accept this argument, then we REALLY can’t expect anyone from outside a specific religious group to accept their writings as holy and therefore authoritative!

anyways, thanks for going out on a limb on this. it’s hard to write personal entries in a blog that usually has a totally different focus.

thus spake isabella, who worships at the altar of many male and female gods, and would secretly like everyone to pray to dr. seuss’s lorax.

It seems like people have been hurt by EVERY church. When I noticed that, I began to think that religion was bad until I realized that churches are made up of PEOPLE. People hurt each other sometimes.

I’m still trying to figure out the benefits of church. I know tribal instincts and other social drives can fuel participation in church. Just wonder what the faith thing is all about. I just don’t have any of that.

So, are you a Christian?? What do u believe in then if you “grew” up from being Catholic?

I am happy and blessed and proud to be a Catholic. That less than 1% of the clergy did such horrible things certainly is a disgrace, but I’m not going to throw out Jesus with the bath water. Nor am I going to condemn the other 99+% of priests for the acts of a few.

Over 95% of the sex abuse was homosexual. The media says “pedophilia” to be PC, but the victims weren’t young enough to be pedophilia. Chris are you as prepared to hate and condemn all homosexuals for the actions of some? Your post suggests you’ll be a hypocrite if you don’t.

Every faith has leaders who abuse people sexually and otherwise. Every town, village and Geek convention has sexual abusers. The Church is made up of humans and can never be perfect.

> Nice try, but sexual abuse is not church doctrine.

I hope you don’t consider yourself an American, Chris, just to be consistent.

The “nice try” line was in response to this:
If you consider yourself a Catholic, then you (vicariously) support the Catholic church and everything it stands for. The two are absolutely inseparable.

Guess I should have used symbols that were mistaken for html.

Funny that your program make s ex into ***. Ha! :)

Chris, I think you meant: The Judean People’s Front.
Didn’t you?

Good on ya, Chris.

Chris, you sure Dawkins’ book is really all that great?

It’s pretty funny/strange to see you tell someone of faith what Jesus did/did not do, historical lens or not.

The universe is an amazing wonder, and it’s the height of hubris for man (Dawkins, you, anyone) to think that they’ve got it all figured out. Faith begins where knowledge ends so they say.

Maybe a good topic for a late night Gnomedex chat, eh Mr. Pirillo?

Isabella, not all living in nazi-occupied Germany were nazis – but country (state) and religion (church) are separate issues with separate boundaries and restrictions. As a confessed Catholic, one must support the Catholic faith, dogma, and doctrine – with no ability to change the rules or regulations.

Laura, there are many benefits to belonging to a church – and that’s largely for a sense of belonging and community. Makes me wonder why there aren’t more Internet churches? :)

Jen, I refuse to give my beliefs a label.

Dawn, nobody’s expecting anybody to throw Jesus out with the bathwater – my disillusionment with man is largely unrelated. I never used the word “hate” on purpose, and I was careful not to call on statistics because my guess is that an overwhelming majority of abuse cases never get reported. And to call upon my statement to Isabella, I have the right and ability to change the way America works – but you have absolutely no right or ability to do that with the Catholic church (they’re two separate social structures).

Ebarra, The Judean People’s Front are a bunch of wankers.

Travis, your link suggestion provides good counterpoints – but both sides are necessary for proper discourse and discovery.

Jason, Jesus Christ pretty much started Christianity. :) Nobody has this figured out, which is kinda my point. Social institutions (churches, religion) only “work” because the people who support them believe that they DO have it all figured out. Moreover, you simply can’t disprove something that can’t be proven in the first place. Faith is a wonderful thing – but it’s also a very personal thing.

I was one of those people who gave up on organized religion of all varities when I was 8 years old (really!). I would describe myself as jewish agnostic, because there is “something” out there that is beyond human understanding. The best parts of the major religions teach people to live ethical lives, love others as themselves, etc. although theory often outpaces practice. It sounds like Chris moved form the “one true faith” binding on all to something more personal which works for him.And that’s all we can ask for as we try to live decent lives: find what works for us and live by it.

Quote “I would describe myself as jewish agnostic, because there is “something” out there that is beyond human understanding.”

Well, your reason for the first does not follow the second.

God acknowledges that man do not understand His world. It’s right there in the Bible. Yet this is no excuse. He wants you to follow despite imperfect knowledge or inability to understand.

As for the reason for the post on the responsibilites of the Catholic Church, a coverup is worse than the crime and the church is corrupt. I believe the Catholic Church has so wrapped up itself in traditions and bureaucracy that it isn’t capable of being redeemed. It has not followed Jesus’ teachings for a long time.

I’m not a Catholic, but a Christian, a born-again type. So that makes me a fundamentalist, I admit. Sure, it can be tough to follow the faith, but it is definitely personal. That’s where faith needs to start.

Quote “WWJD? Start his own religion – which is precicely what he did, which is precicely what hundreds of men have done throughout history.”

Hmmm. Be careful. The Catholics would claim Jesus as the founder.

Whatever happened to the Judean Peoples Front?

Atheist or Agnostic is what most people would label my mother and father. Me? I converted to the Catholic faith in 2003. WTF? You are probably saying in your mind. Well, we can all make up our own minds. I believe in Christ and therefore wish everyone were “saved”. I also care enough about individual rights that I do not attempt to manipulate anyone into my own choices of faith. Children have a natural tendency to believe what they are told by their parents. Then those children grow up and develop their own belief structure. The inside of your head is what you control absolutely. Chris, Never surrender that right. Candy