I believe PCLinuxOS is going to make it happen simply because its members help and the dreaded “RTFM” rarely gets mentioned. All my friends have taken to linux upon me introducing them to this ‘variant’ and after playing with linux for 6 years I am now actually using it thanks to PCLinuxOS.

Just my two cents worth.

SnapafunFrank

I believe PCLinuxOS is going to make it happen simply because its members help and the dreaded “RTFM” rarely gets mentioned. All my friends have taken to linux upon me introducing them to this ‘variant’ and after playing with linux for 6 years I am now actually using it thanks to PCLinuxOS.

Just my two cents worth.

SnapafunFrank

been using linux since…my win98 partion got hosed with virus back in..1999. Do I miss windows? No… I play most of the latest games, (Cedega) use Office2003.(the wife prefers it) and yet in all these years i have never compiled a kernel or really got under the hood of Linux. frankly i have never had the need to. At the mo Suse 10.2 64bit is my distro of choice but I can live with Ubunto too. Tried Vista on a friends box and to say the least I was underwhelmed. I think this is quite a sterile debate windows vs linux vs mac use whatever suits your needs and whatever you are comfy with. oh did mention the I am in charge of my PC and not Steve or Bill..that is what is important to me

been using linux since…my win98 partion got hosed with virus back in..1999. Do I miss windows? No… I play most of the latest games, (Cedega) use Office2003.(the wife prefers it) and yet in all these years i have never compiled a kernel or really got under the hood of Linux. frankly i have never had the need to. At the mo Suse 10.2 64bit is my distro of choice but I can live with Ubunto too. Tried Vista on a friends box and to say the least I was underwhelmed. I think this is quite a sterile debate windows vs linux vs mac use whatever suits your needs and whatever you are comfy with. oh did mention the I am in charge of my PC and not Steve or Bill..that is what is important to me

Someone is out of touch here, 100% of my friends have changed to Linux and are laughing at me for being so slow to do so. Also I have noticed that a large percent of the computer world has gone to Linux already, so much so that I have set a 20 gb partition for Ubuntu and have begun to change over.

Someone is out of touch here, 100% of my friends have changed to Linux and are laughing at me for being so slow to do so. Also I have noticed that a large percent of the computer world has gone to Linux already, so much so that I have set a 20 gb partition for Ubuntu and have begun to change over.

I left windows for linux (SUSE) a year or so ago and have no intention of ever going back to windows

I left windows for linux (SUSE) a year or so ago and have no intention of ever going back to windows

I recently installed Ubuntu on my machine (after trying Vista and finding it was thrashing the CPU memory and disk and didn’t actually work with much of the hardware). Ubuntu recognised everything, and I only had to install an optional update to one driver (which Ubuntu suggested and then did automatically once I said “yes”)

It’s definitely very close to being ready for the desktop. The package manager makes the KDE/Gnome question irrelevant to the end user - you simply choose what you want to run based on the description of what it does and it runs. Some applications run slightly slower if they’re not run in their native desktop, but it’s not noticable on my machine.

I would say that it’s not totally desktop ready because I still wouldn’t recommend it to my Grandma. It needs to be able to do a little bit more hand-holding when it comes to the configuration, and RTFM isn’t quite good enough (it’s still not easy to find out where to configure the odd things, and the documentation is still aimed at tecchy people like me, not your average desktop user)

However, I have to say the same about Vista - it’s ahead on configuration and documentation, but it has other weaknesses which weaken it as a decent desktop.

Grandma now has a Mac.

“but Linux probably won’t take off until the need for an operating system is further minimized”

IMO you have this bass ackwards. [Pardon the "incidental obscenity" but USA judges have empowered me now :) ]

If the need for an operating system is minimized [however that might happen, but probably, in your and "conventional" estimation, because the computer becomes the network and the "network" serves all "our" needs [which is a very idealistic, and if I might judge, elitist notion]], then it does not matter which O/S you get as long as it delivers you “the network.” In that case a familiar, user friendly, conventional [$100-$300] O/S like Windoz, which is affordable by those who can afford $500-$3000 for a computer, would best answer the need. Windoz will continue to be popular by inertia, including by the inertial efforts of those who blog and video encomiums for it and FUDs against Linux, whose open source and non-friendly trends, both with its command line underpinnings, and its inertial trends to be elitist in the documentation and forums will likely continue to some extent, even as it becomes more “user friendly.”

Like Windoz does not have problems needing unfriendly attention [registry for one], or does not have unfriendly and unhelpful people and systems in place, or not, for “support.”

Missing from this discussion is how much more advanced Linux file system, security features, etc are [similarly for OS X] compared to wannabe Windoz. Given enough time and some spine on the part of Micro$oft, Windoz can become more secure and capable, but per your analysis, that is unimportant if “the network” is delivered. Security and safety will always be problematic and take more than newbie or casual attention to gain a level of capability, regardless of O/S and further “improvements,” as long as HUMANS are involved.

Linux won’t take off until people value a capable O/S enough to take whatever relative trouble [and lesser co$t] it takes to adopt Linux instead of Windoz. When this starts to happen, many [who are inclined or empowered to spend accordingly] will instead go or will have gone to a more friendly closed source Unix/Linux system like the Mac OS X [O/S costs $120-$200 and the computer system is about $1000-$4000--not too much different compared to Windoze except on the low end].

If you want a more capable, secure O/S and, for whatever reason, don’t want a Mac, Ubuntu/Kubuntu [and, realizing you can run KDE on Ubuntu or vice versa with little effort, the KDE-Gnome "debate" is more random noise or FUD] is very likely one of the top contenders at this time. Not to disparage other *nix contenders, so you may come to see that the Open Source Too Many Distros “problem” with Linux/Unix is paradoxically an advantage!

Like Chris, I’ve been working with a live cd, PCLinuxOS 0.93a, for a few months now. I actually followed PCLinuxOS from a few of their test and beta versions. They’ve now released a final version, PCLinuxOS 2007, which I think I’m going to load on my main machine. I’ve been dual-booting with Win2k pro, and I think I’m ready to try strictly Linux.
Besides, with the experience I’ve racked up since Win95, I can always re-install Windows another 40 or 50 times.

Hey Chris,

You hit the nail on the head as far as the 2 biggest hurdles that Linux has to overcome.

Problem 1. When someone tries to do something that would be a simple mouse click and “click apply” in Windows, it needs to be that way in Linux too. Now, I’m pretty good with command lines, but the structure of Linux vs DOS still gets me lost at times. And when I wanted to switch my right and left mouse buttons in PCLOS, I was told to go and modify a command line by one of their “hero” members. Problem is this person never told me where to find the line (what directory). It took me numerous attempts to convince the people on the forum that I needed to know what to do from “step 1″, not “step 6″. If I’m getting frustrated, I can only imagine that the average user will just go back to Windows. Most folk don’t want to have to go that deep into command lines, let alone make changes that may cause other problems if not done absolutely correctly.

Problem 2. After my little ordeal on mouse buttons, I attempted to give a little advice to the folks at PCLOS regarding “Problem 1″. I was polite and considerate and explained that I actually loved the OS and enjoyed working out the quirks, but the average “Joe’ might expect a little more. Big Boo-Boo. You’d think I went into a Catholic church and dissed the Virgin Mary. The “Holier than thou” attitude and comments really dismayed me. And then comes the “the command line shall set you free!” mantra. If you’re an old MS user like me who is not a software/code writer, then you tend to get tired of people trying to point out that it’s “your fault”, and those who imply that you’re stupid or a “Troll” (yes I was called that!) simply because you do not want to immerse your self in a second operating system language.

I still love PCLOS, and in general things are getting better for the less technically inclined. But a lot more folks who don’t live and breathe Linux are going to have to get on board for this and other non-Windows OS’ to really take off.

Yours Analogically,
Cliffystones

I will run XP until it dies, and that will be my last Windows system because I’ve paid and paid and paid for repeated obsolescence. I have a second computer (Dell GX150) running Ubuntu (I also like SuSe, and Linspire is OK but didn’t play well with my particular hardware).

Ubuntu 5.10 and 6.06 LTS were quite good. Ubuntu 7.04 is MUCH better for me, and with every update it improves slightly. I can do anything I want on Linux (web design, word processing, photographic editing, sound production … and more), and it easily configures itself for a dual boot with Windows if you want that. Windows has to be installed first, though. Developers of Ubuntu (and Debian Linux, its core) are making the right moves, because it’s getting very easy to do a full installation that simply works on almost any PC. I think that will be the acid test. Dell has announced they will join the ranks of manufacturers shipping Linux PCs, too.

Some of the software compiled for Ubuntu is better (by my standards) than the Windows equivalent. Some requires tweaking to work right. Overall, my tech-related headaches are less frequent with Ubuntu. It may not be for everyone, and especially not for those who are comforted by the Windows file structure, but it’s rock solid and it’s on my desktop until something better comes along. That isn’t likely to come from Redmond, Washington.

Thank you Chris! I have been looking into switching over to Linux for awhile now, and have not come across this version before. I tried Fedora a few years ago, but with disastrous results at the time. Oddly enough, it killed my system, and I was never logically able to figure out why. I am getting a new system this week, and figured I would try out Linux on the old one. I wish I could completely cross over, but unfortunately I have a few problems regarding software. For example I have a recording device that will only transfer my notes with Dragon Naturally Speaking, which of course is not Linux based. Also, if you are doing any high grade video work, there isn’t a Linux program yet that can compare to something like Sony Vegas. I feel like a sell out sticking with my windows, though I figure I will have some redemption when ReactOS gets past Alpha stage. In the meantime I will try out PCLinuxOS on my old system, and dream of the day software is no longer an issue.

As someone who uses these things and doesn’t like the usual PITA problems that crop up with Microsoft products I have been looking for a Linux version that simply allows me to plug it in and do my thing. I don’t want to turn geek in order to keep it working or get something done. Currently I am running Win98se/Office97/AutocadLT/Wordperfect9 all running on a 233Mhz machine with a Firefox connection - and the combination is entirely adequate for most of my needs - nice little workhorse when it doesn’t step on its cojones, which doesn’t happen too often. No, I don’t play games on my machine, its a tool I use. I have used WinXP at work and am unimpressed by its “advantages”. And when the Denver Post blasted “Vista” on the Sunday front page a while back….You get the point.

Yes, a faster machine would be very nice with my broadband connection and it will be here by the end of summer. But I have paid Microsoft for the last time for their less than stellar software and legacy free planned obsolescence bs.

I’ll be taking a close look at Ubuntu now unless someone has a better idea. (Yeah, i have done some programming - back in the dark ages. The reactions I get when I mention Fortran sometimes border on the hilarious.)

Please!!!! How can anyone stand to run a live-CD version. that is so s-l-o-w. I’ve been running Linux for six years, and only have Winder$ for some games. I have a ROMTECH switch to change to any of the three hard drives in my system, so I don’t have to dual-boot. Needless to say, the Winder$ is probably gonna get wiped because it is used so infrequently.
Tried all of the others, but using Kubuntu 7.04 (64-bit on second drive, just for yucks).

Please!!!! How can anyone stand to run a live-CD version. that is so s-l-o-w. I’ve been running Linux for six years, and only have Winder$ for some games. I have a ROMTECH switch to change to any of the three hard drives in my system, so I don’t have to dual-boot. Needless to say, the Winder$ is probably gonna get wiped because it is used so infrequently.
Tried all of the others, but using Kubuntu 7.04 (64-bit on second drive, just for yucks).

Hmmm … Chris (may I call you Chris … after all, Georgie Boy calls Mr Putin Vladimir … “I call him Vladimir, yuk, yuk!”), I think you might … just might … be a bit out of sync on this one. Yes, it has taken a while … yes, there has been a bit of elitism and some in-fighting along the way ( as is the case even in the Winduhs world) … but Linux is indeed ready for the desktop. More than one variant, but Ubuntu in particular, is and has been in use by the home user for quite some time now.

While I’ve been holding on to a Winlose partition as a “safety” back-up, I would indeed be backing up if I succumbed to the MS mindset and actually went back to that world. In reality, I have, as of the momentous occasion in celebration of my birth last month, totally thrown away that crutch and am absolutely Windoze free!

It all started back in the early days of RedHat and a couple of other Linux variants on an experimental basis … a learning process, I like to call those first clumsy steps. When Ubuntu came along, I again toyed with the idea of becoming a Linuxian, taking an immediate liking to the OS itself as well as the Ubuntu philosophy, and began migrating to that new world … and I haven’t looked back, currently using the not-yet-finalized (due to be released in October this year) Gutsy Gibbon version after working my way up through the previous three releases, Feisty Fawn being the latest stable version.

There are far to many positive reasons, a number of them already stated here, that Linux is indeed user-friendly and desktop-ready in several variants and can be used on a daily basis as your primary OS … far to many to enumerate here. And Ubuntu is in the forefront of that movement, being totally usable for the average user “out of the box”. Yes, gamers and geeks are going to want to tweak to the point of breaking … but even if they succeed, it’s such an easy fix to get back to normal that it’s a case of “no harm, no fowl”. And there’s plenty of support from within the Ubuntu community (check out the forums) … users ready to help other users, novice and expert alike.

And until MicroSleeze started stepping in with apparent threats to PC distributors … and in spite of that in some cases, Linux is being shipped installed on new PCs from some companies such as Dell (rumored to be capitulating to MS though).

And so there you have it … as you asked for it: my 2.5 cents worth. And I would welcome you to the world of Ubuntu … check it out, my friend (can I call you “my friend” … again taking the tact of our fearful leader’s reference to Vladimir?)

Hmmm … Chris (may I call you Chris … after all, Georgie Boy calls Mr Putin Vladimir … “I call him Vladimir, yuk, yuk!”), I think you might … just might … be a bit out of sync on this one. Yes, it has taken a while … yes, there has been a bit of elitism and some in-fighting along the way ( as is the case even in the Winduhs world) … but Linux is indeed ready for the desktop. More than one variant, but Ubuntu in particular, is and has been in use by the home user for quite some time now.

While I’ve been holding on to a Winlose partition as a “safety” back-up, I would indeed be backing up if I succumbed to the MS mindset and actually went back to that world. In reality, I have, as of the momentous occasion in celebration of my birth last month, totally thrown away that crutch and am absolutely Windoze free!

It all started back in the early days of RedHat and a couple of other Linux variants on an experimental basis … a learning process, I like to call those first clumsy steps. When Ubuntu came along, I again toyed with the idea of becoming a Linuxian, taking an immediate liking to the OS itself as well as the Ubuntu philosophy, and began migrating to that new world … and I haven’t looked back, currently using the not-yet-finalized (due to be released in October this year) Gutsy Gibbon version after working my way up through the previous three releases, Feisty Fawn being the latest stable version.

There are far to many positive reasons, a number of them already stated here, that Linux is indeed user-friendly and desktop-ready in several variants and can be used on a daily basis as your primary OS … far to many to enumerate here. And Ubuntu is in the forefront of that movement, being totally usable for the average user “out of the box”. Yes, gamers and geeks are going to want to tweak to the point of breaking … but even if they succeed, it’s such an easy fix to get back to normal that it’s a case of “no harm, no fowl”. And there’s plenty of support from within the Ubuntu community (check out the forums) … users ready to help other users, novice and expert alike.

And until MicroSleeze started stepping in with apparent threats to PC distributors … and in spite of that in some cases, Linux is being shipped installed on new PCs from some companies such as Dell (rumored to be capitulating to MS though).

And so there you have it … as you asked for it: my 2.5 cents worth. And I would welcome you to the world of Ubuntu … check it out, my friend (can I call you “my friend” … again taking the tact of our fearful leader’s reference to Vladimir?)

I’ve been running Ubuntu 6.06LTS for about 8 months without so much as a hiccup. Feisty Fawn promises to be even better. I never recommend a distro but Ubuntu simply works for me.

The ever increasing number of Linux distributions can be confusing for those who are new to Linux. Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS and MEPIS Linux are considered the easiest for new users to install and to get productive as soon as possible. I have tested all three but stuck with Ubuntu because of its light weight and the Ubuntu community.

If you think Linux is not ready for the desktop, you’ve go your head stuck in the sand. Linux is not going to take over the desktop but it is certainly a viable choice for many of us.

I think the joker in the deck is 64-bitness. If you want to run a big desktop expanse with powerful video cards, you are using up a LOT of the 32-bit address space [as ChrisP pointed out earlier]. I won’t go to 64-bit VISTA [which I do think has a future] because of DRM, and I won’t go to 64-bit XP, because I don’t think it has a future. But if somebody offered me a UBUNTUish 64-bit Linux [which is not a lot harder than pie] with NVIDIA 8800 driver support [which might be harder], I would jump all over that like a cat chasing cheese.

I need to clear away a bit of computer space and personal time to play with 64-bit Linux and virtualization, and see how all this comes out — but Linux on the desktop might be driven by 64-bit considerations more than anything else.

I think the joker in the deck is 64-bitness. If you want to run a big desktop expanse with powerful video cards, you are using up a LOT of the 32-bit address space [as ChrisP pointed out earlier]. I won’t go to 64-bit VISTA [which I do think has a future] because of DRM, and I won’t go to 64-bit XP, because I don’t think it has a future. But if somebody offered me a UBUNTUish 64-bit Linux [which is not a lot harder than pie] with NVIDIA 8800 driver support [which might be harder], I would jump all over that like a cat chasing cheese.

I need to clear away a bit of computer space and personal time to play with 64-bit Linux and virtualization, and see how all this comes out — but Linux on the desktop might be driven by 64-bit considerations more than anything else.

As a computer hobbyist and one with a technical mind I enjoy Linux and wish I could go 100%. There are still a handful of apps. that I use on Windows as well as printer drivers that are written more for Windows than Linux. (Yes, the printer works well with Linux, but if I want the full capacity of the printer then its back to Windows.) I agree along with most of the prior comments as a whole.
Actually a lot of individuals around the world do not really want to use the computer but are forced into it. As a result they most likely will take the OS that is either the first (and/or easiest) to come along or whatever the computer already has in it. With Windows being the current dominant OS that is what they are going to use. On that note most of these users I mention are not programmers or into programming. They just want to use the computer and move on. It’s like getting a gas grill and having to learn all of the intricacies of propane gas as well as configuring the arc of the lid cover, adjusting the dynamics of the axles, etc., etc. All the backyard cook wants to do is connect and turn on the gas, light the grill and cook some food. At this point in time Linux is not for everyone, on the other hand Windows is not for everyone (to their dismay, I’m sure) and Apple’s OS is not for everyone. But then there is always something else coming around the corner that changes everything (for instance, Google).

As a computer hobbyist and one with a technical mind I enjoy Linux and wish I could go 100%. There are still a handful of apps. that I use on Windows as well as printer drivers that are written more for Windows than Linux. (Yes, the printer works well with Linux, but if I want the full capacity of the printer then its back to Windows.) I agree along with most of the prior comments as a whole.
Actually a lot of individuals around the world do not really want to use the computer but are forced into it. As a result they most likely will take the OS that is either the first (and/or easiest) to come along or whatever the computer already has in it. With Windows being the current dominant OS that is what they are going to use. On that note most of these users I mention are not programmers or into programming. They just want to use the computer and move on. It’s like getting a gas grill and having to learn all of the intricacies of propane gas as well as configuring the arc of the lid cover, adjusting the dynamics of the axles, etc., etc. All the backyard cook wants to do is connect and turn on the gas, light the grill and cook some food. At this point in time Linux is not for everyone, on the other hand Windows is not for everyone (to their dismay, I’m sure) and Apple’s OS is not for everyone. But then there is always something else coming around the corner that changes everything (for instance, Google).

also: http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/eldergeek/

On a newer, faster machine PCLinuxOS, or *buntu is far easier to use than you assume. On older hardware, Debian Etch is more user friendly than Windows 98SE and a great deal more powerful.

The three most popular user environments are Gnome, KDE and Xfce, not a dozen choices, just three and after playing with a small collection of live CDs for a day or two the average person will have chosen one that “just feels right” for them.

We’re teaching a woman who’s in her mid-sixties and has never owned a computer to use Debian Etch and she’s having a great deal of fun with it.

Sure there are a lot of choices in Linux distros, just as there are a lot of choices in automobiles. Given a friend who’s willing to set the system up and tailor it to a specific users needs, a Linux system can be vastly more secure and considerably more user friendly than Win2K or XP, let alone Vista.

You’re supposed to be a real geek, the genuine article. Stop behaving like a dilettante, puttering about with live CDs and drawing sweeping conclusions. Scrounge up a used machine that’s over 1 GHz and got at least 256 MB of RAM (yeah, I know that’s a dinosaur, right?), install PCLinuxOS, *buntu or Debian Etch, geek out enough to make it multimedia (or run Automatix if you’ve gone with Debian or a Debian variant), give it a fair trial, let your dad play with it for a few days and then draw conclusions.

Lisa says “You know what it is?”, I reply, “What?”, “He’s afraid of Linux.” she insists.

Is that it? *grin*

In coarse vernacular; put up, or shutup.

also: http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/eldergeek/

On a newer, faster machine PCLinuxOS, or *buntu is far easier to use than you assume. On older hardware, Debian Etch is more user friendly than Windows 98SE and a great deal more powerful.

The three most popular user environments are Gnome, KDE and Xfce, not a dozen choices, just three and after playing with a small collection of live CDs for a day or two the average person will have chosen one that “just feels right” for them.

We’re teaching a woman who’s in her mid-sixties and has never owned a computer to use Debian Etch and she’s having a great deal of fun with it.

Sure there are a lot of choices in Linux distros, just as there are a lot of choices in automobiles. Given a friend who’s willing to set the system up and tailor it to a specific users needs, a Linux system can be vastly more secure and considerably more user friendly than Win2K or XP, let alone Vista.

You’re supposed to be a real geek, the genuine article. Stop behaving like a dilettante, puttering about with live CDs and drawing sweeping conclusions. Scrounge up a used machine that’s over 1 GHz and got at least 256 MB of RAM (yeah, I know that’s a dinosaur, right?), install PCLinuxOS, *buntu or Debian Etch, geek out enough to make it multimedia (or run Automatix if you’ve gone with Debian or a Debian variant), give it a fair trial, let your dad play with it for a few days and then draw conclusions.

Lisa says “You know what it is?”, I reply, “What?”, “He’s afraid of Linux.” she insists.

Is that it? *grin*

In coarse vernacular; put up, or shutup.