Comments on: Certifiable Certification

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 22 May 2005 12:15:24 +0000

Sidzilla,
It sounds to me like you've taken it to the next level. If you don't have a degree and expect to hold a professional grade position and make professional grade cash – well, best of luck on your next interview. (Again, experience is a given) I say BRAVO! Hold all of our feet to the fire. Raise the bar. Demand standards. I agree that certifications are not a foolproof measurement. Hell, you can't tell me you don't know any degree toting derelicts. The idea in my opinion is to have visible, minimum standards to get in the door. In your case that means a degree. Anything short of a degree and you know you will offer less – if you accept them at all. Again, I say very good for you and keep beating that drum. By the way, what's the hang up with the MCSE? Does everyone want to be a help desk engineer? Heck, get a desktop and networking cert – that will get you to the help desk. Then take that experience and start working on something like a CCNP, CISSP, PMP, etc. While your at it, take Sidzilla's advice and get comfy with the meaning of night school. I know I just did. Thanks Sid.
Vannon

By: Sidzilla

Sidzilla — Thu, 19 May 2005 20:29:11 +0000

Vannon, you misunderstand me. Certifications are worthless because they are so easy to get. I put in the time to get a real degree, and put in the time to get real life experience. I have no respect for certifications because they are shortcuts for people too lazy to do it the right way. The worst pro I ever worked with was an MCSE who aspired to ' someday build a pc himself.' When I hire someone they need a proven track record, a degree from a real college or vocational institute, or a combination of the two. A certification will get them shown the door. I don't need people who are good at studying for tests, and that is ALL that a certification proves.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Mon, 16 May 2005 02:21:20 +0000

Vannon again. The point IÂ’m making is that we demand proven levels of competency from other people/institutions we interact with but want to give ourselves a pass. It doesnÂ’t work that way – not in any walk. Jump up and down and beat your chest all you like. Certifications matter and I for one plan to continue to do my part in ensuring individuals who prove their capacities via recognized standards are rewarded for their efforts and those who do not will either fall to the side or provide their skill set at an appropriatly reduced cost.

By: Sidzilla

Sidzilla — Fri, 13 May 2005 20:23:46 +0000

Certifications are nice, I guess. I don't have any… I have a diploma and 22 years experience. Guess that makes me a hack in Vannon's book. But his book ain't worth sh*t.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 13 May 2005 09:28:33 +0000

Many certified individuals have proved to me, by their inept actions, that they are unable to do the job right.
Some certified individuals are good, some are bad. The same goes for the uncertified. It's not all black and white, which is how Vannon put it.
It's easy to get egotistical because you have a qualification or two, but it doesn't mean that you're any more enlightened than the few seconds before you took the test! If you can go from being bad to good in a few minutes, either you're a genius or were never bad in the first place.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 12 May 2005 18:19:31 +0000

I whole heartedly agree with Vannon. I have nine years of web application development experience, *and* I have many certifications. My thinking is, if youÂ’re really that great Â… why donÂ’t you have a certification? If youÂ’re so good at what you do, and youÂ’ve been doing it for so many years then a certification should only take you a couple months of your free time. Not taking the initiative to invest a couple of months of formal training into your career tells me that you are probably less motivated, probably less well rounded, and possibly a hack. Sure, you might be able to do the job Â… but will you be able to do it right? If so, then prove it.

By: overthetop

overthetop — Thu, 12 May 2005 08:32:05 +0000

Certs can be bought or faked. Experience can't be.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Wed, 11 May 2005 14:49:31 +0000

I'm a support guy.
I don't have an MCSE, but I do get many requests from arrogant people claiming that they have MCSEs – the same people that come to me for help! Some MCSEs I've spoken with are extremely lacking in the basics.
If your computer breaks down, you usually take it to the family member (who has no certifications, but is always able to fix things), rather than go to some certified guy who charges the earth and has really forgotten most of what he's certified to do.
Also, you'll find that word of mouth is one of the biggest forms of advertising. If you do a good job, people talk about you, you get recognition, and you get jobs.
I say from experience that you can't trust a certified person to do a job well, just as you can't trust somebody without a certification.
Certifications have their place, but that's usually on the wall of an arrogant bastard!!
: )

By: Leo

Leo — Tue, 10 May 2005 16:17:34 +0000

I'll reiterate what I said in the original article Are certifications important? (also run on Lockergnome, on which Vannon is commenting) ... certifications are nice and all, but as an interviewer they don't tell me anything about what you can *do*. I'm not hiring for what you know, I'm hiring for what you can do for me.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 10 May 2005 13:41:08 +0000

Amen!! Most of the MCSEs that I know are really good at memorizing text books. While I am not certified, don't think I will either, it becomes too dangerous when a hiring manager relys only on the certification. What real experiences do you have? Do you know how to think outside of the box..
I know many people, including myself, that are NOT MCSEs but can run circles around those who are.

By: merryworks

merryworks — Tue, 10 May 2005 12:48:38 +0000

No certification here either. I have talked to IT managers of companies and they have all agreed, they would rather pick someone with experience over any certification. There are a number of certification classes that solely teach you how to pass the test. Once you are certified, you still have no idea of how to do any work.

By: Brandon Paddock

Brandon Paddock — Tue, 10 May 2005 06:57:49 +0000

I'm not certified by anyone. Perhaps I should be. But in my experience, certification means very little. It's either too easy to get, or too difficult in the wrong way. And I've never judged someone to be smart/knowledgeable/useful based on their “certifications” or vice versa. But that's because I consider myself to be fairly smart, knowledgeable, and useful as well as experienced. If I talk to someone about a technology-related topic, I can very easily determine if they're any of those things. I don't need to know if they've passed some test.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Tue, 10 May 2005 06:02:47 +0000

And this is precisely where it all goes pear shaped. As an IT Manager, I can honestly say that in my experience, certification in no way guarantees quality; herein lies the danger. Employers who value certification over everything else get what they deserve. There is no substitute for a thorough individual evaluation. Getting a few answers right in a multiple choice lottery just doesn't cut it for me.

By: News

News — Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

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