PayPal Denies $450 of Unauthorized Charges

On my birthday last Saturday, I received a “present” I wish I never had. Due to some lax security policies that Apple has thankfully since updated, someone was able to use my birth date to obtain my iTunes password, and get into my account. They then managed to use that information to give themselves a nice little gift of $450 worth of iTunes gift cards… courtesy of my PayPal account.

Apple has worked with me to straighten this out on their end. As far as I know, they have since made some changes to their password retrieval process, which is an excellent thing. Of course, that doesn’t get me my money back.

So, I turned to PayPal, and opened a case in their Resolution Center. I followed all of the necessary steps, and provided them with complete information. The wait then began for me, checking my PayPal balance daily to see if my $450.00 was back in my account yet.

Tonight, I received an email from PayPal’s lovely Resolution Center.

We have completed our investigation of your claim and have determined that this is not an instance of unauthorized account activity. At this time, your claim has been denied. Through careful research, it has been determined that the correct course of action would be to cancel the Preapproved Payment Agreement from your Profile. The merchant will be notified of this change and will no longer be able to make charges to your account.

Wait, what??? “This is not an instance of unauthorized account activity”. What the HELL are they thinking? My password was obtained illegally. My money was taken without my consent… again illegally. How exactly can they determine that this was not an instance of unauthorized anything?! This is complete insanity. Apparently, PayPal is so focused on making money for themselves that they cannot be bothered to care when ordinary people like you and I lose ours via illegal means.

Thanks for nothing, PayPal.

213 thoughts on “PayPal Denies $450 of Unauthorized Charges”

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  7. I would talk to apple about refunding your account (at least some apple store credit). After all it was their security hole that cost you money. Also, apple tend to bend over backwards to help their customers.

  8. PayPal as some other people have learned, will only cover what amount was “insured”. This only applies to ebay sales, and then only those with insurance. They don’t care about anything else and don’t even attempt to help users who are cheated.

    If you haven’t already you should file a claim with your bank (I’m guessing your bank account was linked to your paypal account) or contact your credit card company and file a claim with them explaining that you’ve already contacted the merchant and what their response was.

  9. That sucks bigtime Chris, as you say, Paypal seem to have forgotten it’s no where without people using it – a few more ‘higher profile’ users like yourself having a bad experience, and they will be losing people left, right & centre. Hope you can appeal or something?

  10. I’ll bet PayPal’s expecting Apple to cough up the $450 since, technically, Apple is the merchant that screwed up. What says Apple about all of this? Let me guess: they say “talk to PayPal.”

  11. well im not a mean person but a hacker should get taught a good lesson. and i figure u kno a trick or 2 so y not get even lol

  12. Well, from what I read above, you had a “Preapprovement Payment Agreement” which means you had agreed to “pre-authorise” anything that came from iTunes, so as far as Paypal is concerned, that was a legit transaction.

    Say I walk into a bar and promise to pay for all the drinks my mate Chris buys, then say Chris gets drunk and buys drinks for everyone in town; who do you think should foot the bill at the end?

  13. wow dude i think that is a bunch of crap but im kinda confused did Itunes do this to you??? if so dude i would be completely pi$$ed if not tell me other wise. but still i think paypal is loosing there employees beacsue there done with the shit paypal pulls
    they had over 100,000 reorts of lost money in the past 3 years i think its time for them to give up or think of something else

  14. Actually, while harsh, I can see their point of view. Since you allowed Apple to setup a merchant agreement (which more or less gives them full permission to your account) from paypal’s point of view everything was Kosher. They somewhat rely on the merchants you setup agreements with to handle investigations on their side of the story.

    I usually try to keep those canceled as much as possible. The only annoying one is woot, which if you set it up and then cancel it from the paypal side exposes some annoying bugs on the woot site.


  15. Man that sucks. This is total bs. How could they say “this is not an instance of unauthorized account activity” $450 was taken out of your paypal account without your permission and they got your password illegally. I cant believe this. I would contact the Better Business Bureau and tell them about this.

  16. Hi Chris,

    I had a very similar thing happen with Skype and Paypal, I complained to both of them and Paypal replied very quickly with the same form letter you received telling me to go away.

    Skype didn’t respond at all for 4 days, so I contacted my credit card company and explained the situation to them. They said if I put it in writing that the transactions were fraudulent they would challenge Skype and Paypal for me, and strike the transactions from my bill.

    About 3 months later I got an email from Skype apologising and an email from Paypal saying they agreed the transactions had been fradulent, but it’s obvious they both simply discard any complaints from individuals and treat you like rubbish until your credit card company becomes involved.

  17. hi

    I sympathize but I don’t think this is paypals issue. They didn’t hack your paypal account or obtain your PP details illegally.

    This is totally apples fault and they need to refund the charges.


  18. Hmmm… well as others have pointed out, this really is Apple’s responsibility. They screwed up – PayPal simply honoured the agreement you’d made with them to pay out anything that Apple requested.

    I hope you get your money back from Apple – it’s really their fault, and their responsibility. At the end of the day, it’s Apple that got your money, so it’s Apple that should pay it back.

  19. Chris, Paypal are a law unto themselves.
    God knows how they have got away with some of their practices for so long.
    I avoid them like the plague at all costs where possible.

    They do listen, but it takes an awful lot of shouting at them before you actually get to someone who understands what is happening. Your requests to the resolution centre will probably spend a few weeks bouncing around support desks in Mumbai before it even gets near someone who has a clue what actually happened.

    Just point them to the URL of this post and watch how quick it gets resolved when the realise there is a chance of negative publicity. That’s a ploy I often use and it works well.

  20. While I understand that you’re annoyed about this I don’t understand why a smart guy like yourself can’t see why they’re being like this. As far as they’re concerned they got a request from Apple, a merchant you had approved, they fulfilled it and that’s the end of it. The fact that your account with Apple had been compromised has nothing to do with PayPal – they have no control or responsibility for that. The actual transaction with them was completely legal and above board, your complaint is with Apple.

    I think your confusion may be related to credit cards where they share liability with the retailers. PayPal does not provide this insurance, and if you don’t like that I suggest you get a credit card and use that instead.

    I also don’t understand why Apple can’t cancel the gift cards and refund the money. Again, your complaint is with Apple not PayPal.

  21. first Leo and his eBay debaucle, now you. Paypal is really getting a bad name with the tech set. They need some competition.

  22. I lost about 1000$ and a laptop when someone used a stolen credit card on PayPal, then a few months later the credit card company reversed the payment, so now I’m out the money and the laptop…

  23. Yeah Papal are useless money hungry criminals I also have had my account robbed from me about a year ago, the person used my account to order themselves an expensive computer from newegg my bank worked with me in every way they could papal on the other had was very rude to me on the phone and in emails Iv got that same email you posted Chris.

    Papal claim no unauthorized account activity accrued what!! wtf!!! clearly I was very angry so I fought this for as long as I could .

    Paypal charged me everyday I did not pay them not only did they charge me for the items the criminal bought but they charged me $30usd for every time my bank declined the transaction

    so what did paypal do you ask when well they went after my wife’s credit card because her card was on my Paypal account so this put us in debt of over 2000usd 🙁 I will never ev er use Paypal again.

  24. Chris, as a long time user of paypal I can guarantee that if you go the bank used for that transaction (credit/debit/ACH) and dispute the amount as an “unauthorized transaction” they WILL reverse the funds and take the money from paypal. Banks are required by law to fight these types of transactions since there was no card+signature present during the checkout.
    Don’t fret, your bank should take care of it for you. Never trust paypal to handle disputes for you.

  25. Ouch…I’ve always trusted Paypal as my main source of online payment everywhere from Newegg to iTunes and eBay, and to have my back, but I might change my attitude towards them now.

  26. What the hell man! Don;t they knwo who you are? I say you you get together a “bury brigade” like team to go after paypal!

    Everyone should blog about it, hassle them, tell everyone, micro-blog it, etc…

    Go Team Pirillo, Do Your Thing!!!

  27. paypal and eBay suck. Poor customer service. PP is a non-bank with little oversight. eBay has gone downhill. Ask Leo Laporte about their fine service.

  28. That is ridiculous. Chris, I hope you get everything settled and get all of your money back [and then some because PayPal is stupid]. I am seriously now thinking of canceling my PayPal account…

  29. I read your post and the current comments. I think that Paypal does have something to stand on here. The security flaw was not with Paypal but with iTunes. Thus Paypal was not negligent in this instance and not responsible for lost funds.

    Now here’s where I flip the coin. What should happen here is a discussion with Apple initiated from Paypal. I have trouble when these companies that have agreements with each other don’t try to internally help solve the issues that face their customers.

  30. I hate to sound negative here, but I can’t see why you’d expect PayPal to refund you the money. Apple is the one that screwed up, and the one that currently has $450 of your money. You are definitely entitled to a refund, but you are trying to get it from the wrong people.

  31. Yeah, Paypal sucks. Leo Laporte lost about $2000 to some one who never sent the item he won on ebay.

    I’d go to apple and say it was their fault. You had a legitimate account payment setup with Paypal. The merchant where the purchases were done is the one responsible for canceling those itunes cards and tracking down the person who paid. They should have an IP address.

    Someone mentioned this analogy already, but I think theirs was a little off. If you walked into a bar and setup a tab to pay what you spent at the end of the night and the bar then proceeded to allow someone else at the bar to add drinks on to your tab then the bar would be responsible for it not the credit card company you told them to charge the drinks to.

    I’m not fond of Paypal either. Especially with their nickel and dime charges on every purchase as an ebay seller. That business is a cash cow and the only way to change them is to not use them. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be another big player in town. What ever happened to google’s pay system?

  32. This is why I prefer shopping in a store. Real time interaction leads to real time help, not some e-mail saying that your account wasn’t really hacked into, we just misplaced $450 dollars and won’t give it back, that’s just absurd.

  33. I keep hearing about people unhappy with PayPal’s response when they are defrauded. Does anyone have any positive PayPal stories?

    Something to consider is that if Chris had set his iTunes account to use a credit card instead of PayPal I’m pretty sure he would have some recourse. The credit card company would probably have taken care of it yet PayPal won’t.

  34. Not quite, Owen; more like Chris walked in, and using your name, birthdate, address, and telephone number convinced the barkeep to add his drinks to your tab.

    But I do agree that iTunes/Apple should make him whole, just as my bank will for any Visa/MasterCard theft instead of V/MC, after which the bank behind the scenes argues “who pays” between the companies.

    Too many times PayPal has left its clients damaged where the client is blameless, but punishes them anyway — and just another reason I will not use PayPal.

  35. Why would you buy $450 worth of Itunes gift certificates Chris? Are you kidding me? Who needs that much worth of gift certificates?

  36. I had a similar issue and had to go through hell to get my money back. It took 2 weeks to get my money back- which was over $1,000. Funny, since it took pay pal about 2 seconds to take the money from me.

    Every time I spoke to a customer service rep they were rude, inconsiderate, and a couple times even hung up on me. I won’t even shop on Ebay anymore b/c I refuse to use PayPal. It is a HORRIBLE service

  37. That is frikkin ridiculous! How the heck can they say that it is it not unauthorized. I wonder if there is an appeal process to that. Shame on Paypal for doing that. I do agree with some of the other comments here though.

  38. To start, I agree, PayPal is annoying in that they won’t let you have a rational conversation about anything related to your account. I like PayPal because it is an easy way to send and receive money. I hate PayPal for the same reason, PayPal is an easy way to execute a fraud.

    Now to their point RE your account. The real culprit is Apple. From PayPal’s perspective you authorized Apple to pull money from your account. They researched this and rightly concluded there was NO unauthorized activity. Think about it this way: why should PayPal be responsible for the actions of third-parties not under their control. They have no way of deciding who you do business with. What if you decided to allow me to access your account for some reason and I pulled $1,000 out of your account and then I bought one thousand dollars of donuts? Should PayPal give you your money back or should I? I think PayPal would be in the clear and I would either need to turn the donuts over to you or refund you money…

    Apple on the other hand, is clearly at fault. They DID allow someone to access your account and that access was unauthorized. They should refund your money back to PayPal and PayPal, in turn, should refund your money.

    So feel free to hate PayPal, but don’t forget to bug Apple to get your money back…

  39. Yeah, that really sucks. And not very good.

    I can’t understand why important companies like PayPal and Apple aren’t interested in helping you getting your money back; it’s both their fault.

    What I should do if I was you, is just call them on the speaker phone, live on in the live stream and chat. I think that may help.

    I’ve tried it one time (I also stream live on, and it helped out. The video is findable at YouTube: (sorry, it’s Dutch, that’s because I live in the Netherlands and it was with a Dutch phone provider).

    After two weeks, they wanted to give my money back.

    So Chris, go on, don’t be scared about it! You have the right to take action, so DO IT! You have the power!

    Chris, good luck and I’ll see what happens.

    (also blogging @!)

  40. Yeah, this one’s on Apple. Though, a good reason to stick with credit cards, over PayPal, due to favorable limited liability in regards to theft.

  41. So someone got unauthorized access to iTunes but iTunes is not refunding you for them purchases and instead you expect paypal to refund it?

    I think you need to stop worshiping apple. They just likely unauthorized any music purchased with those gift cards and the cards them selves and then pockets the $450 anyway.

    Dont mean to sound rude but I think you need to rethink about who really is the bad guy in this situation. You painted a image like Apple did everything for you and gave you a bag of chips but really all they did was take your info and likely make the cancellations in the back end.

  42. In this instance I’d tend to agree with Paypal. The fiscal responsibility is with Apple. They paid the $450 to Apple, Apple needs to refund the money. It’s also another reminder to be sure and use credit cards so you have some recourse, rather than Paypal.

  43. Alright let me get this straight. You are putting paypal at fault for Apple’s lax security measures? How it is paypal’s fault that apple fails to provide the right measures for getting your password? You gave Apple full access to your paypal account, paypal has no way to determine who used that account whether it was you or fraud. Apple’s the one at fault, why not attack them?

  44. I think in intransigent cases like this, PayPal’s record of non-customer service can only be fixed by a number of us going to wait in their parking lot with baseball bats. Take any two account agents, and give them what is called here in Boston, “The Shlammy”.

  45. I had an issue with Paypal in the past.

    This seller sent me a broken product but Paypal refused to refund me for the purchase.

    Apparently their guarantee kicks in only when the product is not delivered. As long as the product is delivered they don’t care if it is working or not.


  46. Yes, there resolution and fraud protection policies are poor. That’s why even if paying by paypal, make sure money comes out of credit card and not bank account. That way you can still use Credit card to claim unauthorized charges.

  47. It sucks, but I don’t think PayPal should refund the money: I think Apple should. Apple is the one that let somebody in your account, so they should be the ones to pay for the mistake. (Paypal didn’t do anything except pay an authorized merchant.)

    Good luck getting it resolved!

  48. Ouch. I’ve never used PayPal, but I guess that if I do, I’ll do what one of the commentors does, which is leave that bank account at $0 99% of the time….I guess the sole way to avoid defraudment is to not have any money there in the first place. Hey, at least you got an iMac as a better birthday present, right? But PayPal…el diablo.

  49. I’ve been through Paypal’s resolution process and it royally sucks. After dealing with all the Paypal nonsense I wish ebay let you use other payment methods.

  50. Well of course Apple should credit his account back.

    1 – It was their lax policies that allowed his account to be compromised.
    2 – There is no actual product. By refunding his money Apple would lose NOTHING, except that the illusion that mp3 downloads are tangible inventory.

  51. I recently had a problem with PayPal and 1-800-flowers where I was given one price by flowers and PayPal took $3.50 more out of my bank account. I had to play dueling-customer service- phone tag (neither company would speak with the other, even though they each offered the other to call them to discuss the problem). Neither one wanted to refund the amount and each insisted that they didn’t have the money. I know that it’s not much, but it’s principle. Anyway, 1-800-flowers blinked and refunded my cash. PayPal customer service and resolution department is a joke.

  52. ok, i can see where apple is at fault here for having lax security, and where you’re at fault for pre-approving all itunes purchases, but i’m not seeing where paypal is at fault. they shouldn’t have to pay anything.

    if the thieves used your account to buy itunes gift cards, can’t apple just deactivate them or find out who purchased them? either way, this is apple’s problem, not paypal’s. they absolutely are the ones who owe you the $450.

  53. I don’t have any love lost for PayPal, but as a couple of folks already stated, from a business perspective, PayPal is right. The problem lies with Apple, and so should your recourse. They are the ones responsible for your damages, not PayPal. You authorized an agreement allowing PayPal to make automatic payments submitted by Apple. Apple submitted the payment requests in error, their error.

    Not sure if PayPal has the same authority as a credit card whereby they can charge-back their merchants, but only in that case would I believe PayPal would have any recourse to help you. If you went before a judge to recover damages, your most likely going to hear that you’re looking to the wrong party to recover, PayPal did nothing wrong, your recourse lies with Apple.

    By the way, I am a CPA, not an attorney so nothing above constitutes any legal advice or opinion.

    Also why I have my PayPal charges/pmts paid via a credit card account only. At least I have a chance of calling the credit card and disputing the charge. Only had to do that once and it worked.

  54. YOU authorizied Pay Pal to accept the request from iTunes>

    It is “iTunes” who gave someone your password.

    Therefore :”Tunes” gave someone else your permission to spend your money.

    “iTunes” would be responsible.

    Now, if iTunes allows the birthdate of someone to access their password, think of all the people you know that belong to iTunes…..and YOU KNOW THIER BIRTHDATE!

    This is a big HOLE in iTUNES!

    This is NOT a Pay Pal issue. I agree with them discontinuing the auto approval. You could do this yourself every day and so could every customer and PayPal would be out of Millions of $’s.

    Scenerio, I say Iam my girlfriend, and get tons of ITunes the same way your account was used. She does the same to a third friendof ours. I do the same thing to the third friend.
    At $450 each… that is $1350 that Pay Pal would be out.
    Think this through Chris…and go kick ITunes butt!
    The weakest link link is iTunes!

    You should also be able to set up some spending limit on iTunes. Say you can only spend $100. per session or some such thing.

    Also, start thinking about that password Chris. How many places to have have password that may be somewhat similiar?

    The blame needs to go to where it belongs.
    Las Vegas

  55. When we used to use Paypal for allowing customers to pay us for the goods and/or services we provided, many customers used AMEX or Visa or MC to complete the transaction.

    Then, after they received what they bought, they notified their credit card company that they never authorized the charge.

    Paypal’s response was to immediately debit our account for the amount of the charge. Over 4 years, 22 charges (out of several thousand), averaging around $700 were debited from our account and not once did Paypal see it our way.

    F— them! For sizeable amounts we now require wire transfers.

  56. So you did get your money back?
    I never had a problem with paypal but i have read of and heard about so many other people who have had problems that i quit paypal.
    I use only EMT. So far so good on that!

  57. I had a case where I purchased something on eBay and never received the merchandise. The seller had a good rating (probably padded) but then all of a sudden they disappeared from eBay about a week after my payment cleared. So I immediately went through the hoops of eBay claim, they denied it, then I went to PayPal who said they wouldn’t refund my money because the merchant had “insufficient funds”. So then I went to Square Trade and was also denied because I filed my claim with them past the claim period. After explaining I waited for eBay’s answer and then waited again for PayPal’s answer, they still didn’t refund my money – so I ended up losing my $100 to a crook. Funny thing is, PayPal still lists my “claim” as an open issue in my PayPal account.

  58. I agree with J.P. This isn’t PayPal’s responsibility.

    The responsibility lies 90% with Apple. You need to get your $450.00 from them. You were bilked out of $450.00 by a security failure in Apple’s iTunes e-commerce site.

    Hey, what about the other 10% of the responsibility? That, buddy, is yours. No one shoud ever allow any web-based merchant to have ulimited access to their PayPal account via an unsecure iTunes “Preapprovement Payment Agreement”. Maybe it’s more of a hassle, but you should NEVER have signed up for one of those agreements.

    Get a copy of Roboform and use it to fill in your credit card info for each transaction, making sure you select the option so they don’t keep your credit card information on file. Even if someone gets your info, at least with credit card payment you have recourse with the credit card company.

  59. I am definitely going to cancel my Pay Pal account now. I have had problems with them in the past, but not to this magnitude…so, I’m gettting out while the getting out is good.

  60. this is exactly why exists. I only leave 0 in my paypal account because of similar problems in the past.

    Paypal resolution center is worthless. Always has been and always will be. Ever try finding the paypal phone number?

  61. That’s exactly why I won’t give PayPal my bank account number. If I have to use PayPal I have them charge my credit card instead. I keep close watch over charges to my credit card and they are very good about resolving problems. I don’t do iTunes so don’t know if they accept credit cards, but that would be a safer way to go.

  62. Write an unfavorable column about iTunes’ security/policies (but don’t publish it) and forward it on to Apple’s customer service. Tell them how many subscribers you have and before publishing it, ask if they have anything they would like to add, if they are still unable to offer you a refund. Too late if you consider this blog entry!

    And I don’t blame PayPal, although I still don’t like them. iTunes gave your keys to some stranger who drove off in your car. Don’t blame the car.

  63. Thats a huge shame paypal giving them selves a really bad name, Is there any further action you could take to try and get your money back.

  64. My wife set up an account with SL exchange, with Paypal to be the middleman, to buy Lindens in SL only on her approval. She had to link it to a bank account just to get it approved and the agreement plainly stated that no moneys would be withdrawn without her permission. Well I had 5 checks bounce because after the test transactions, Paypal decided my wife needed to buy some Lindens, since her limit was $25 a day, they took $25 a day for 2 weeks before we bounced the checks. NEVER, NEVER give any online entity the right to withdrawl any money from your bank accounts, EVER! Lesson learned.

  65. You should NEVER allow any website to have preauthorized payments from your PayPal account. You should always have a second password system in place, just common sense.

    I always use the shopping cart system through iTunes so that several steps must be gone through to complete a transaction, including requiring a second password to access PayPal. I also subscribe to “Verified by Visa” which requires yet another password to charge my account.

    By preauthorizing payment, you’ve essentially given permission for anyone with access to your iTunes account to charge funds to your PayPal account, which isn’t really PayPal’s problem.

  66. I got nicked for $86 through paypal for someone that bought World of Warcraft”. Paypal refunded my money and I deleted my account with them.

    I now keep no active online payment account due to this incident.

  67. If you were stupid enough to open a paypal account despite knowing they are crooks (and by now EVERYONE knows paypal are crooks)
    then you deserve the inevitable ripoff.
    Are you now going to permanently close your account and join every smart person who avoids paypal like poison?

  68. I don’t allow pre-authorizations and here’s another sound argument why. “Preapproved Payment Agreement” is just another bad idea if the potential bill is open-ended and not fixed. With convenience can come risk, especially with money. I rarely do business with anyone who won’t take a corporate check, I use a low-balance debit card for most activity, and I avoid Preapproved Payment Agreements. I just have two: NetFlix and YMCA. Everyone else gets pushed a corporate check from an automated service. PUSHED not PULLED.

  69. Sometimes chargebacks are a fiar form of protection against fraudulent sellers…. and when a chargeback can be justified because of non-delivery (after their resolution centre investigates and finds in your favour) , Paypal can report that they can’t recover any funds and the case is closed. As a buyer I’m down $1400. What is a buyer supposed to do? Paypal aren’t really interested.

  70. What a great Resolution Center. You clearly got your money stolen by someone who got into your account and they cant see that. Can you appeal that decision? Thats a lot of money. Paypal has to take another look at your case and open there eyes.

  71. Yeah, PayPal is not your friend! They pretty much suck if something goes wrong with any transaction! Their site is not robust – any little flicker, and payment options that have been changed will revert back to the default. AND, that will not display on the screen. I have been hit twice by this! I am sorry that you had to learn about their Resolution nightmare system first hand!

  72. It would not take super programming for PayPal to send it’s customers and automated email asking confirmation for each withdrawal before they BEFORE they transfered money to a “merchant”. Other sites do.

  73. I can see both points of view. Unfortunately, since you did pre-authorize all transactions, it is really between you and Apple to work out the $450 debit.

    That said, PayPal is miserable at providing any form of refund. Horror stories such as yours are exactly why I stopped using PayPal several years ago. There are just too many ways to lose money there and it’s nearly impossible to get it back.

  74. Simple – don’t use Paypal, if you do not agree to their terms and conditions. It’s actually that simple.

  75. I’ve learned to keep my PayPal account tied to a bank I trust and always leave my paypal balance at $0. That way if someone makes illegal charges, I just call my bank and say “someone stole my account.” They tell me to shred my current cards and cancel the charges that aren’t mine. Then I wait two days and the problem is solved. No missing money, just two days of leftovers and ramen.

  76. It’s Apple’s fault.
    PayPal only carried out a lawfully set up pre-authorized pay agreement.
    Why blame the messenger? Shouldn’t you recoup your loss from the agent iTunes ?
    After all, it was their security breach that caused these “illegal” charges.
    Just my 2cents.
    Sorry Chris.

  77. You gave authorization to Apple to draw funds from PayPal. This is PayPal’s problem how? Should PayPal start paying for everyone’s screw up now?

    I agree this sucks, but your beef is with Apple. The fact is that these were AUTHORIZED charges… you have a misleading post title.

  78. I would keep bugging Apple or Paypal. I would be angry if that happened to me and would be persistant until something was done. Don’t give up!

  79. This is only a sample of the very bad service that you will receive from PayPal, not only will they not give you your money back, but if my experience is played out your account will be further compromised as you password, and account information are passed around the internet dark hallways. If I were you i would immediately change my checking account that was tied to Pay pal before it is drained. I would also discontinue this PayPal account as quickly as possible.
    If you really need to use PayPal Then open a separate account at a bank you like, and use this account for nothing but PayPal. Then open a new PayPal account tied to this new bank account.
    Good Luck, because I found that dealing with PayPal was such a security risk, that I had to actually change banks in order to get PayPal away from my accounts!!!

  80. Wow… You lose $450 and Paypal just can’t seem to figure out you didn’t spend it?! Something like this happened to my friend before and he lost $300 when someone compromised his eBay account and bought an expensive watch. He eventually got it back when they traced the address of the guy who compromised it. Maybe instead of Paypal doing their own investigation, they should look at Apple’s records to get it straightened out. They are probably just considering it was your fault anyway because you preauthorized iTunes to access your account.

  81. Hi I am from PayPal Support and just read about your story. I looked into…well not really…

    if I was really from PayPal I wouldn’t have wasted my time worrying about a customer.

  82. Seriously, like that is illegal right there. It’s not fair to you…it’s your money, you need it. Sue them, I say and…don’t trust PayPal anymore……..

  83. It’s extremely unfortunate that there are people that do these types of things in the world. With that said, I would have to say that PayPal is not immediately at fault, but they could definitely do something about it if they would do a more in depth investigation. I feel that Apple should be more responsible for the problem though. To have a system set up where you could possibly retrieve someone’s account info is inexcusable.


  84. I personally think it is ridiculous that PayPal won’t let you have your money back. Personally, I think they should just be called PayMe, and their slogan should be “You get screwed, ain’t out problem!” Illegal and illogical why they don’t give you your money back. Time for some suing going on in the Pirillo household!

  85. It’s not just PayPal – most of the online money transfer services appear to be a law unto themselves. I’ve dealt with PayPal before and switched to MoneyBookers ( because a friend recommended them and told me that they were better. Wrong!

    I didn’t have any issues even with hacking. I was using MoneyBookers for a while and suddenly I get an e-mail from them saying “We have determined that you are using your account for business purposes and that means you need to register with us as a business.” Huh? How’d they determine this? I’ve tried to get some answers from them but they keep asking me for details instead of giving me answers.

    I’m not happy with online money transfer services 🙁

  86. This is just wrong and that automated response made me even angrier but i am sure paypal has their backs covered on this one for sure with some sorta size 10 font somewhere near a YES button………you would think Paypal would want good publicity though…bad business for them to not settle this…they just lost triple that amount in customers

  87. Wow, that sucks. But if you can trace the account and prove that the account isn’t yours, you can tell PayPal and court, to receive the money back. I hope you get the money back, and best of luck.

  88. Oh Chris,

    Come to God with your heartache. He is waiting for you to just come to Him. Life is rapidly fleeting away.

    “Jesus said, ‘I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.'” – John 6:47

    “God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.'” – John 3:16

    God bless you. He loves you more than you could even ever imagine. Believe in His Son as your only Savior and Lord, and you will live with Him in ecstasy for eternity.

  89. This is one reason I get fishy about PayPal, everyone says it’s secure but I still can’t trust them like that.

    It’s a shame that people steal like that and get away getting the last laugh, hopefully it will be back in your account.

  90. This makes me wonder if I want to do business with them anymore…is there another site like paypal….Paypal and Ebay are basically the same entity now I can see this happening since Ebay thins their poop don’t stink

  91. Ya, that’s pretty screwed up.. I don’t use paypal myself.. but after hearing that, I don’t think I will be at all.

  92. I really wonder how that is not absolutely unauthorized. That is the goddang definition of unauthorized…

  93. Wow that sucks , i hate it when major companys cheat people like chris , grr it makes me SICK

  94. Oh my god Chris, i know how you feel, I hate when things never go my way! I think that Paypal should have refunded your money, especially after the story you told.

  95. Apparently you just want to hate PayPal for some other reason, because this circumstance isn’t a valid reason.

    PayPal did exactly what you told them to do. Nothing more and nothing less.

    Your beef should be with Apple (but you seem to give them a pass) and yourself (which you don’t seem to do a bit) for allowing any automated entities free-wheeling access to your bank accounts.

    Nowhere in your post to express remorse for your love of convenience as the root cause.

  96. I had a problem with PayPal, too – different details, but equally unfair. Someone made a purchase on my site, then four months later, without communicating with me in any way, filed a dispute with PayPal saying I’d charged her credit card without authorization. The payment system on my site is completely automated – I’m not involved in the charge in any way. And I can prove this person accessed the paid area of my site – she knew she’d made a purchase and she explored the goods.

    I carefully explained all this to PayPal so they could dispute the chargeback on my behalf. First they lost my message. I sent it again. In the end, they decided the chargeback was valid, took back the money for the sale, plus charged me a fee for the chargeback. There was no sense to this at all, and it made me feel very vulnerable. What if everybody who came to my site did this?

    PayPal does not actually investigate – that’s all I can conclude.

    I very much wish I hadn’t used PayPal as the payment system for my site. Now I’m boxed in unless I want to do a vast amount of reprogramming, which I do not (it’s very complex custom code for a paid forum with access to other stuff as well). It would be a huge expense in time to redo, and I have other things that are higher priority for me now.

  97. he rearry can’t do anything about it to paypal, afteralll, they really didn’t do much other than make the transaction. if i were you, i would tell apple that you talked to paypal and have them sort it out from there.

  98. Chris that really sucks that it happened on your birthday, i lost some money on paypal and it makes you think if Paypal really cares about their users.

  99. If the PayPal charge was against a Creditcard instead of a Bank Account then you can file a dispute with the Credit Card company. Here in Australia they will immediately recredit your account and request the Merchant to prove the charge.(and as you never received the product and have the documentation showing this then you should be OK).

  100. This is the second case I’ve heard about within the past week involving Paypal and a material amount of money lost. Their reputation for poor dispute resolution is going to haunt them.

    I have heard enough to make me want to cancel my account altogether.

  101. That sucks. I’d say Apple and PayPal are both at fault for this. Apple for poor verification methods, PayPal for not questioning a $450 transaction for gift cards.

  102. Wow! Really?

    I recently did a transfer of $220
    It went smoothly, but what I hate is the time it takes to transfer.

    I like doing it free….so it takes me about a week to transfer from my bank to my paypal account.


    Well Chris just think positive no matter the downfalls. Things will soon flow your way.

  103. I have been using paypals for a few years now and I have yet to have problems. When selling stuff, they were quick to give me my money back if someone scammed me. They may not be perfect all the time, but they get the job done.

    Sorry for your loss… Hopefully apple will give back your money after so much time you spent talking/advertising about their products. They should be greatful! Not trying to steal your money.

  104. Wow…. I have had something similar happen to me before just not as extreme… Paypal is a joke when it comes to customer service. If i was you, I would call paypal and get it straightened out cuz the online service sucks. Good luck!

  105. This is why I uses……… Prepaid Credit Cards for Dealing with all my Online Stuff. From Netzero to Ebay, I use it. I keep no EXTRA money on it, Other than WHAT I pre-described for its use. It is Not really “hooked” to a Bank Account so THEY can’t pull more than is there.

  106. I had a website hosted with Spruz and used paypal to pay for it. A few weeks ago I stumbled another web host that suited my needs a lot better. When I tried to cancel my Spruz membership I could not get a hold of anyone on the phone or through e-mail. So I turned to my PayPal account and pulled all my bank info off. Today I got an overdraft notice in the mail from my bank saying my account was overdrawn. “How can that be” I asked myself, I took my info out and nothing else was supposed to come out of my bank for another week. When I checked my bank balance online it was showing Spruz had taken the money out using my debit card. This really put me over the edge. I called the bank and they said it can take 3-5 weeks for them to investigate. I then turned to paypal because in 3-5 weeks more money could be taken out. According to paypal, when Spruz couldn’t get their money PayPal gave them my bank information so they could get the money. Isn’t that illegal?

  107. That’s just absolute crap. Apparently some one can’t make themselves a living, and have to steal yours. Utter laziness if you ask me. I can’t see why Apple wouldn’t track the number of the gift card you purchased, and link it back to your account, and allow you to freeze that card. Then again, I also do not use iTunes, or apple products, so I don’t have first hand experience. Just seems like common sense to me. I’m glad they were cooperative though.

    I gotta admit, when the stream is zoomed out, the iMac seems kind of offsetting to me. Just kind of distracting.

  108. I had a problem happen to me that was very opposite of yours, I actually forget my password, and the credit card that I had with the account had long gone been in the trash. I wanted to use my email to create another account with them, but in order to do so I first had to delete the one I was not using, which had the credit card I no longer used. The big problem was that they would not send me my password without the last four digits of my credit card, and I no longer had that card so I could not remember the 4 stupid digits. So till this day I was no able to reset or create a new account using that email address. I had called Pay Pal many time, gave them my Name, Address, Birthdate, Phone number, all you can think of that they would have in their data base to prove to them that that was actually my account and they still refused to give it to me because I did not have the 4 last digits of my credit card.

    So they can screw you over by not having a good security system and also by having such a good one that you can’t even reset your password. Of course I did not lose any money but it still sucks that I cannot use my favorite email with paypal.

  109. I recently had to deal with Paypal BS as well, but it turned out a little better for me.

    I just moved from Germany to Austin, TX, and decided to use my Paypal account to transfer money from my German bank to my new US bank. I logged into Paypal and requested to deposit $5k from my German bank into my Paypal account, which seemed to work fine. The next day, I get an email from Paypal that my account has been flagged as suspicious and that is now limited, meaning I can’t withdraw or deposit any funds, for my own protection. I just had to provide some verification info and answer a phone call to un-limit my account. I get to the phone call verification step, and my phone never rings, but now Paypal says that I failed that step and they will only unlock my account by sending a PIN to my German address. There was no option for a second attempt on the phone call. What a pain in the ass. My mail gets forwarded to my US address, so it should only take 2 weeks or so to get my new PIN, I thought. It ends up taking Paypal 1-2 weeks to send out the PIN, which means that it took 1 full month to reach me.

    Meanwhile though, even though my account was “limited”, Paypal went ahead and processed the $5k withdrawal from my German bank account. So for about a month, Paypal took my money and I had no access to it.

    What pisses me off is that this was all in the name of security. Had they really been secure, THEY WOULDN’T HAVE PROCESSED MY $5K deposit in the first place. I was depending on the money for some relocation costs, but since I couldn’t get to my own money, I had to figure out other solutions that ended up costing me more money. Thanks Paypal!

    I now generally tell people to avoid paypal if you can help it.

  110. Love the vids. It would suck to be denied even though you didn’t authorize them i think apple should have to repay.

  111. Wow, that’s scary…but you have to keep fighting and fight in writing, with threats to everyone and anyone that you think that can fit the bill. Make a lot of noise.

    Apple and PayPal will keep pointing fingers till someone gives or till you give up.

    File a complaint against Mastercard, Better Business Bureau, any Police Agency, local or federal, that will listen.

    I once chased and collected two cents, no BS, from fraudulent charges, just to make it a point. Two cents times millions of people on the internet, is a lot of money for a crook.

    $450 !!! We all work to hard… Good Luck

  112. well i agree with you about apple they do need to fix there stuff and i am mad that paypal dient give you your money that is so dumb

  113. chris, paypal is evil, I even said this would happen on your birthday in the chat room, I know someone who this happened too, how ever he lives in europe so there government branches are different, but he tried to get his money back and they refused he eventually went to a government branch and got his money back, it took him like 3 months its best if you just go past them and to higher powers.

  114. hey chris thank u. I think it is about time someone bloged about as big as you maybe they will listen and bump up security. That happened to me and I only lost about 10$ so I did not raise cane. I hope they listen

  115. Paypal.. great service, until it loses u money, a hacker tried putting 1,400$ into my paypal to then transfer funds to his account, i stopped it in time. its just anoying, but i guess its my fault, i was careless, and thats why you make sure your computer is clean kids!

  116. Wow, that’s pretty messed up right there.
    Of course just think how bad it could’ve been if you had just been using a credit card on itunes instead of paypal.

  117. this is why i dont have a paypal account 🙂

    i am sorry to hear the loss chris 🙁

    -Brian Tran (minja3418)

  118. Paypal has become really lazy lately in their resolution department. They don’t seem to really care at all when you file complaints. There definitely needs to be some improvements in the process of signing up for Paypal to keep the scamming people out.


    I used it a while back (2 years ago) and was ripped off on eBay for $250, and Paypal didn’t give me back my money either. I just have some feeling that real people don’t really look at it, just a computer generated response after a certain amount of time.

    I totally, truly, with all my anger agree with you…

  120. Now THAT is the reason I buy using debit cards. My bank knows I would not spend a bunch of money on gift cards, so they would ask for an authorization.

  121. Unfortunately this is one of the downfalls of the PayPal system, and it’s pretty much always been this way. I get regular payments from clients through PayPal with no issue. However, if you ever have a dispute with a transaction in which you need to get your money back, it’s all over. I had a situation just recently where I paid for an item on eBay but returned the item to the seller, the seller didn’t refund through PayPal, and PayPal failed to do anything about it.

    Just another fine example. I’d contact my bank or credit card company whichever one tendered the transaction through the PayPal system.

  122. Hey Chris,
    This happened to my partner a few months ago. She didn’t have the paypal involvement though. Her bank acct was linked direct to itunes. Someone dinged her acct for $400+ in gift cards too. He changed the acct name to his for a few hours and then changed it back. We had tracked and printed this activity almost while it was happening. Apple didn’t respond to our emails at all. Nada. She called her bank and they resolved it and returned the money to her acct within the week.

  123. I had a problem with PayPal and Ebay a while back. I bid on some products which turned out to be totally misrepresented. It was the sellers who were at fault but PayPal and Ebay decided that since I got the parts if I sent them back that they would deduct the amount from the sellers account. I sent the parts back and they were returned to me again with “Unable to deliver due to address doesn’t exist” I sent that to ebay and paypal and they said my claim was denied because I didn’t return the parts. Not that I couldn’t return them but because I didn’t return them. The seller was suddenly getting tons of bad comments from others that he was doing the same thing to.
    I was very upset because PayPal was supposed to be standing up for my monetary transaction and Ebay for not getting rid of an obvious fraud.
    Anyway I complained to my bank about what happened and was surprised to discover that because I used my visa debt card to PayPal they could simply reverse the charges and I would get my money back. So I did it.
    I was a little nervous about PayPal coming back to me about this but I did it anyway.
    PayPal was not happy but when I again pointed out that they had broken the agreement of protecting me and my money against fraud they didn’t bother me again.
    I wish you luck in your dealings with PayPal. I for one will never do business with them again.

  124. Come On! You’re talking about PAYPAL – everyone knows they are crooks. If you use them you will get ripped off. Everyone knows that! You can’t pretend to not know that if you are an IT Professional!

  125. I have been lucky and not had that problem with paypal, yet. I have always been a little weary of its security. I have had an issue with selling things on eBay using paypal though. They pull shenanigans once in a while by not letting you receive your money until the buyer leaves a positive feedback. In Chris’ case this is completely ridiculous. There is n such thing as serving the customer anymore. Its protecting ALL of the enormous amounts of profits these mucho companies receive. Its just a fact of life in today’s society.

  126. Because of similar horror stories When logged into paypal I always opt to use a different payment method and use my AMEX.

    I do use paypal as a payment gateway on one of my sites because of another nightmare refunding a customer if I ever have to give a refund. I mail out a check and suck up the charges.

    I’m considering using Amazon check out on my site.

    1. DO use Amazon, Google, whatever! Don’t use PayPal–no matter how convenient it may seem!!!

  127. I had a problem with PayPal with the same type of issue but dealing with a dispute and they wouldn’t work it our with me until they received a letter from my attorney acknowledging that we will file a lawsuit if my situation was not solved and as soon as they received that letter my attorney received a phone call and I received both a e-mail and phone telling me that my problem is solved. Since $450 is like a car payment to me I would go ahead and have an attorney send them a letter regarding your issue and if they will not cooperate I would request they refund you $450 + $1,000 + legal/attorney fees. It clearly states that you are entitled to a full refund and you should especially if you did not authorize this, plus an additional $1,000 and attorney fees, it clearly states that in all receipts e-mailed to your e-mail account. Hope you get a refund of $450 or more. Also while reading some of your comments, yes he may have agreeded to a pre-autorization however;

  128. Well, now, that seems fair.

    It should have read…

    Dear Mr. Pirillo,
    We would like to inform you that paypal hijacking is legal in your state, according to the terms that you signed when you created your paypal account. I guess you did not read the part that stated, “If someone directly or indirectly hijacks funds from your paypal account that was opened in Seattle, WA., then it is perfectly legal and you have to accept responsibility, because we sure as hell aren’t. Thanks, k, bye.

    I love it when MULTI MILLION dollar corps cant refund 450 bucks. Give me a break! It’s THEFT for God’s sakes. Jeezus, what is this world coming to. I love the fact that it is impossible to trust anyone. Ahhhhhhhh forget it, I give up. Sorry Chris! That sucks brutha!

    It pisses me off and that’s my 2 cents,

  129. Paypal sucks. Always use your credit card on Paypal purchases. That way, when they try to screw you, you can request a chargeback from your credit card company and Paypal gets stuck with the fee. They’ll send you a nastygram via e-mail, and I imagine if you do it a lot, they’ll close your paypal account, but what do you expect from a company run by ebay? Biggest criminals on the net.

  130. While I don’t agree at all, and I’m so sorry that happened, it’s technically one of those things where it’s not really Paypal’s lookout. There was a deal between you and Apple and then Apple and paypal.

    SO.. this issue should really be dealt with through Apple and the itunes/Apple Store, because they’re the ones with the agreement with PayPal. You should inform Apple of what’s happened, and Apple should go to bat saying that there was a situation where an account was hacked.

    If it’s not taken care of by Apple/iTunes, that sends a message out to the public that one can get their Apple Store account and, subsequently their paypal and bank account hacked, and nothing will be done about it. That’s very unsettling.

  131. For Paypal to refund you the $, they would just have to reverse it from Apple, Apple was the one who was paid from your Paypal account. Apple should just reverse the charge and save you the trouble of dealing with Paypal, this is Apple’s f-up, not paypal’s.

  132. i had a huge problem with PayPal also. i sold someone a PS3 and they payed me via paypal and i shipped them the PS3, total paymeant was $500. so it turns out that the person who payed me the $500 used someone elses paypal account to make the purchase, and that person filed a report with paypal. turns out paypal was trying to charge me the $500. i was not going to pay them the $500 because i did nothing wrong, the people who illegaly hacked someones PayPal account to make the purchase was to blame, but of course PayPal could care less and they were charging me even after i called and explained the situation to them. so what i did was i called my brother in-law who is an attorney, and i had him give them a call. it was semi-resolved, they ended up closing my paypal account, and they said i couldnt open another one without paying them the $500, so i just never went back to paypal. YET they never went after the actual criminal!!!

  133. If it is paid by credit card, can’t you have your credit card non pay? If it was a direct withdrawal from bank account, shame on you. By the way, might want to contact Federal Trade Commission and file a complaint. I know a few years ago they came to bat for me on a stolen credit card number, and all heck broke loose for the company that I was dealing with. You might want to check that out.

  134. Apple clearly is at fault, all PayPal did was provide the form of payment, the don’t really hold any liability.

  135. I’ve always been suspicious of paypal, which is one reason why I do a limited amount of business online. I never pre-authorize anything and I always use a credit card, so they can go to bat for me if something goes wrong, such as having my purse stolen and the thief charging mucho bucks on my cards. I like the idea of having an attorney write a threatening letter (or you could take them on yourself in small claims court, since you lost less than $500). I’m a bit surprised that a tech-savvy person such as yourself doesn’t use disposable e-mail addresses and 1-time only passwords when doing business online. I’m sorry that your b’day was spoiled, and hope you learned something from this unfortunate experience.

  136. WTF is paypal’s problem. well sorry but the people who putn chris’s DOB up on the internet are at fault. but it is also apple who is at fault. they really needed to beef up security much sooner then just what a few weeks abo? i would blame apple but i relly think that there should be some inda IP address logging on apples website so you can know that only you are using your itunes account and not come chinese guy;

  137. Well, I wouldn’t blame PayPal, because it’s Apple’s fault. They had a hole in their security. PayPal can’t tell who used your iTunes Store account. I would demand that money from Apple. And since you are a loyal customer, perhaps they would give it back to you? (Or you could just sue Apple).

  138. Paypal automatically declines any ticket of reclaim for money if a password was used to get into your account. they take NO responsibility for it =p read fine and boring text my friend, fine and boring.

  139. PayPal are under no legal obligation to pay for damage they didn’t create. Apple’s security measures, not PayPal’s. Read up on it before expressing hatred to 1,000 people on your blog at least.

    Speak to Apple first, about refund, and canceling the vouchers, as 1) it is their fault, and 2) canceling the vouchers costs nothing to them anyway. You really approached this the wrong way round.

  140. Wow… Just when you think you have heard it all. Chris, those with intelligence here have it right. PayPal is not responsible, the transaction from their end of the pipe was completely legitimate and authorized. Your bank I am afraid is in much the same position as from their end, the transaction there is legitimate also. Apple is the party here responsible, as the end merchant, they have already acknowledged that your account was abused on their end, and taken steps to secure your (and hopefully others) accounts. At this point, you shouldn’t even have to ask for a refund, Apple should already have this in their game plan. Damages potentially caused by this charge are a different matter.

    Now, as to all the PayPal bashers on here… Wow… You guys really need to get a bit more mature. You are blaming PayPal for someones use of fraudulent cards via ebay, non-delivery of goods again from ebay, and a host of other issues that PayPal has NO control over. In each and every case, from the PayPal point of view, YOU initiated the transaction (a must as you MUST sign in, select funding source, identify the payee, etc) to pay for goods and services. PayPal did just what you asked them to, they made payment for you… so… what is your beef? If you walk into JC Penneys, and buy a couch with you MasterCard(say from Chase) and JC Penneys doesn’t ever deliver your couch, why is Chase liable???? Likewise, you own a store, someone walks in and buys a TV, pays with a credit card, which YOU run through your bank. YOu have done diligence of making sure the card is signed, valid and presented… However, it is a stolen credit card… It isn’t your BANKS fault that the real owner said… whoa there bucky, I didn’t make that charge… and now the money is out of your account, and the merchandise is gone… this is part of the risk that you assume when you own a business…

    Ebay… Folks there are rules and guidelines.. Ebay tells you general rules, repeatedly. Check who you are buying from, check their reputation, you can check buyer reps too. If you don’t get merchandise you have paid for (I speak from personal experience twice now) Ebay works with you to get your money back, which I did, within 2 weeks… But even then, they really aren’t liable either… you do NOT pay Ebay for merchandise, that money goes to the seller. Being angry at Ebay for unscrupulous people that use their service is like being mad at a Mall owner because one of the businesses renting space from them ripped you off in some fashion. From my observations and experience, Ebay does a pretty good job at TRYING… and the vast majority of sellers AND buyers on Ebay are legit… sadly, a percentage of both simply aren’t…. But guys, Ebay did NOT invent flim flam, it is merely the latest medium for perpetrating this on people… Figure out who it is you are really mad at… then figure out how to avoid these issues… Being mad at someone because they did just what you told them to, is simply poor judgement…

    Chris – I hope Apple steps up to the plate for you soon…

    1. Dude, my post on an unauthorized PayPal charge that happened to me in ’06 was DIRECTLY PAYPAL’s FAULT and my bank reversed all charges due to PAYPAL’s lax security procedures regarding monetary accounts on their system. PayPal admitted they did wrong and allowed MY CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT INFORMATION TO BE USED BY SOMEONE (MAYBE A PAYPAL EMPLOYEE, HACKER, WHATEVER) TO CHARGE BY BANK ACCOUNT FOR $350+ !!! Don’t use PayPal people period.

  141. I’m not sure why someone would think that anyone other than Apple is responsible. An analogy would be if you wrote your PayPal username and password on a sheet of paper and lost it. Then someone else finds it and buys something, paying for it with your PayPal account. Yes, the USE of your account was “fraudulent” and not what you authorized, but it had NOTHING to do with anything that PayPal did, or had ANY ability to detect.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think PayPal has serious issues and sometimes deals with valid complaints in unreasonable ways. But in this case, I don’t see anything they’ve done as being wrong.

  142. paypal is so large nowdays, it has a united states goverment liaison officer.

    paypal has managed to jerk my string in the past and it is laying there defunded. i dont use it. knowing the caliber of person that chris pirillo is and the comments of others…this whole thing stinks.

    since it started out, paypal has used two things to its own advantage…we are not a bank, and freezing peoples assets.

    i always use other forms to pay.

  143. Has anyone looked through the license agreement you have to click “I Agree” to every time iTunes gets installed or updated? Perhaps there is something in there that details the security setup they have and how much liability they have in the event of a breach. I’ve never read more than a few sentences of the EULA, but I’m willing to bet Apple has something in there covering their butt in this matter. I agree with most of the other people here that Paypal is not at fault (although I also wholeheartedly agree that they suck big time).

  144. This is nothing to do with Paypal but all to do with Apple. Paypal seems to have acted appropriately: it received a debit request from a merchant and processed it. The merchant supplied the necessary id tokens. It’s Apple and its broken processess you should be taking issue with and it’s Apple that should refund your money.

  145. Really sorry that, that happened to you chris my itunes account has not even been buged because I keep a strong pass word and it has nothing to do with my life or never share info on what my pass word could be!

  146. More like PayUsMoneyz

    >_> Stupid PayPal!!!

    Mark Hopkins – “I’ve lost about $7,000 over the years to PayPal.”
    O_O omfg! thats total bull(**censored**)

  147. +1 BCK

    This is Apple’s fault. Not PayPal’s. You need to contact Apple into giving you a refund.

    (And this is from someone who hates dealing w/ PayPal).

  148. I think this is pure BS, I personally lost over $1000 from one guy using paypal, he made a series of purchases over a 8 month period than one day charged back everything…paypal did nothing. Complete BS.

  149. I happen to work for PayPal and I looked into this particular case because it caught my eye. According to our customer service team all three charges (there were three that totalled $450) were fully refunded by Apple. We (PayPal) also refunded Mr. Pirillo $100, so while he has had an unpleasant experience – which I personally regret – it is one that has in fact made money for him. I am surprised that this fact has not been made clear by him on this blog.

    On a separate note, while PayPal is far from perfect (what company is?), we do generally care about trying to keep our customers happy in disputes. Often these are lose/lose situations, but we really do our best to try to ensure that they can be turned around. This particular case was a great example of a situation that in fact was resolved completely in the customer’s favor.

  150. Seriously Chris, this was Apple’s screw up. No matter how nice they were to you when you called, they still owe you $450. In this situation PayPal is in the right. They shouldn’t have to be out of $450 because another company was negligent and irresponsible with your account information. I would go after Apple and make them cough up my money if I were you. PayPal really does suck, but this one isn’t their fault. I think Apple will be more than happy to pay you back because the alternative is the news that Apple had a security hole in iTunes, and you have the megaphone to announce it!

  151. HAHAHAHA! That’ll teach you to use Apple products, Mr Fanboy! I find it hilarious how you think that the problem is with PayPal!

    Apple have piss-poor security, your PayPal account is set up to allow auto-billing from Apple and somehow you still think the Sun shine’s out of Steve Jobs’ arse!

    A normal person might stop and think for a minute… “Hey, this company which I worship is actually pretty shite, they allow anyone who knows my date of birth to access my password. That’s a really stupid mistake they made. Hell, I’m never going to buy from this shitty overpriced company again!”

    Alas, not you. You continue to evangalise them.

    I wish stupid people like you the worst punishment I can think of… working in one of the sweatshops where your Apple products are made!

  152. Hi folks, this just happened to me on Dec. 10th for the tune of $500.00. I immediately contacted PayPal and Apple. Changed passwords on Apple, PayPal and all other online accounts, pluse deauthorized pre-approval for Apple iTunes.

    Today PayPal responded by as to others ‘tough-sh*t’ and that was expected since it was clearly an Apple iTunes security issue.

    I’ve emailed a polite and factual email to [email protected] and I do not expect a response. I also, plan on filing a police report and a complaint with my state attorney general. Anything else I should do to get this resolved?

    Thanks! C

  153. The issue is that iTunes is relying on Credit Cards to handle fraud. Well if you use Paypal and it’s linked through your bank account YOU ARE NOT PROTECTED FROM FRAUD. This should not be in the FINE PRINT, this should be something that is made VERY CLEAR. YOU USE PAYPAL AND IT’S LINKED THROUGH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT YOU WILL NOT BE PROTECTED FROM FRAUD.

    Paypal markets itself as Safe and secure, but it doesn’t protect you as it should like a credit card. There should be federal laws enacted that if Paypal wants to maket itself as an alternative to credit cards, they should be forced to protect you like credit cards.

    iTunes is even more to blame…why can’t it rescind the gift card and just put the credit in your account? This way Apple doesn’t lose any money but the thief doesn’t profit from it. At least you get the song downloads.

    Since most of its songs are DRM protected, why can’t it know which songs were bought with the fraudulent gift card and deactivate those songs. If it’s with an account where this happens too much deactivate the account, the iPod and ALL DOWNLOADS.

    I wrote a letter to the BBB and the reply from Apple was call the FTC and report Identity Fraud (not the case) and go handle it through your credit card (not the case). So the BBB Ombusman from Apple gave me the same canned response that the general customer service rep.

    Apple is letting blatant fraud go on on their website and they are doing NOTHING about it. They are part and parcel to this…my God, this is Class Action lawsuit territory. In my opinion, Apple aids and abets fraud on their website. They profit from fraudulent activity because they do nothing to stop it. They hide behind fine print and reply on other entities outside their direct control to solve your problems.

    Personally, I used Paypal for outside transactions…no more. Outside of eBay transactions. Paypal is done. No more fees from me outside of eBay (because, also I HAVE NO CHOICE). Which means eBay will suffer also.

    Apple? They are done. No more iPods, NEVER an iPhone. I was considering a Mac Pro or a Macbook; NOT ANYMORE. You want to shaft me out of $50. Fine you just LOST MY BUSINESS and I will tell everyone this story, to never buy an iPod, use iTunes or use an Apple product. Use Amazon MP3 Downloads, no DRM and Amazon actually has customer service. Buy a Zune or use any other device.

    I suggest other people who have had this happen to them to spread the word and boycott Apple and Paypal (and eBay) while you are at it.

  154. This just happened to me four days ago, so it clearly isn’t something Apple has fixed. I will never buy another Apple product again, and the moment I can get my hands on a Palm Pre on AT&T I’m going to be going for it, or if an Android phone comes out earlier I’ll go for that. Either or will do the trick. I’m sick of Apple’s bull. I’ve long since sworn off their computers when they decided that replacing my wireless card under warranty was $1000 because the laptop wasn’t pretty. You know, I actually used my laptop daily instead of sticking it in a glass case to just look pretty and show off to people; which is apparently what Apple expects you to do with their laptops. I should have never bought this stupid thing.

    1. Screw Apple; overpriced and very over-rated! I had an Apple computer in ’03 as I work as a graphic artist/designer and I forked-out $3000 for their top-of-the-line machine that would (despite updates, maximum RAM, etc) would constantly freeze and crash! What a rip and I was stuck with this overpriced dual CPU computer that Apple tried to blame the software vendors for the problem. 6 months later, I built my own Windows computer with newest cutting-edge hardware that never crashed and ran flawlessly with no issues!! For one, the same Photoshop software never crashed, unlike the $3000 Apple/Mac always, always did!

  155. Paypal will only credit a customer’s account if the customer’s PayPal account gets hacked. It sounds like you Apple account was hacked. Apple should be the party that credits your Paypal account.

  156. On thanksgiving my paypayl account was apparently hacked and someone sent 6 unauthorized payments to someone “miss live.” 4 payments of 40.40, 1 of 20.20 and 1, of 50.50 thats $232.30!!! the VERY next morning the money was gone from my account. i filed unauthorized with paypal and the person the money was sent to reversed the charges, BUT now paypal says i have to wait until the funds clear into my account, not until dec 3rd or 4th then i can withdraw funds and wait another 3-5 business days! so i’m supposed to wait 2 weeks for my money! screw the fact i have rent due!

  157. Someone used my boyfriend’s Paypal account to make $400 in charges and Paypal wouldn’t do anything. They said, “Maybe you should just use your credit card instead of Paypal.” I couldn’t believe that response!! HIs bank won’t do anything either so he’s out the money, which was a lot to him since he’s slow at work due to the bad economy.

  158. who cares ? you must keep your passwords private if someone was able log in to your account means you gave him a permission this is in your business to protect yourself not the institution. for me you seems to be a fraud that want to rip seller , paypal and itunes.
    Stay away or you will go to jail for this scum.

  159. This happened to me in 2006, someone hacked or stole my credit card info from PayPal and purchased $350 + change for some Ebay item! Luckily, my bank reversed the charges and I have since closed my PayPal account! JERKS!!! It was afterwards, I researched on PayPal practices and their lax security policies. I found an in-depth article regarding the lax PayPal security and it had a comical picture of a monkey working at PayPal, with credit card numbers strewn all over the desk, stuck to the computer and pinned to the walls and the monkey throwing darts at the credit card accounts. It was funny as hell but, unfortunately–so true and I know first-hand of this!!

  160. I’m not sure what is going on exactly. But i was charged through my paypal account $23 for eBay International AG, I don’t even have an eBay account. Of course I followed the procedures, talk to representative after being on hold for 40 minutes and now I’m waiting on my refund. I just wonder how many people like myself are being affected and don’t even know. Is there anyone investigating these horrible acts of dishonesty? If you have any links to this please let me know.

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