Apple and Sony: It’s All About the Community!

Will do chris, this is going to directly to my blog.

~~~~KrnSidez/Google

That is so stupid for Sony to do. You spend anywhere from a $1000 to $1500 on there laptops, and they are going to charge another $50 to remove all the **** they put on there in the first place.

[...] response to this post, made by Chris Pirillo. I honestly think Apple fucked up by bundling Safari into a iTunes update. I [...]

Yes Chris, you were very correct. Sony will charge for anything so im not really surprised, as for Apple, I respect their decision, since it is optional the user may do whatever he/she pleases. With more users using safari on windows it is most likely to improve but it will never be the same as running it on a native Apple machine. This has been proven many times with QuickTime and Itunes.

I had a very weird feeling when a friend of mine (Windows user) was telling me how his “iTunes Updater” was installing Safari… I was like “Uhh, nice! Safari is a really great and fast browser!” but deep inside I was annoyed but knowing that Apple was “pushing” Safari to iTunes users on Windows. I understand that this was probably the idea all along for once it exited beta stages onto stable releases… But I don’t like “pushed” stuff, even if it’s better than what it exists!

Great to see Safari’s market share grow… It’s a great browser for us web developers… But I still have mixed feelings on how Apple treats Firefox too…

Oh well.. :/

iTunes is a program widely used, so Safari will reach more people. However, how many people actually use the **** that comes bundled on an install? Especially when it comes to toolbars. I’ve heard plenty of people ask me to remove them because they’re “annoying”. Will Safari just be the new “annoying” icon on the desktop that users won’t know what it does?

I still say its a good call by Apple.

-Intrepid

Sony’s decision to give you a clean computer without the bloat is something that should have happened a long time ago. While this is a good step in the right direction, but charging customers extra would be like chopping a leg off, crippling a great start. As you said good for Sony to drop that.

You are definitely right on this one Chris. It makes no sense to bundle software that people will not use or just did not ask for in the first place. I remember when it used to be a pain just to find a standalone QuickTime installer that didn’t include iTunes with it. It took me forever to locate it only to find out later that it was buried within Apple’s site itself. What a pain!

First of all. I only use Itunes when i have to(for my Ipod). Second of all, I have never tried Safari in my life. 3rd of all….. What the hell is Apple thinking mixing the two biggest peices of **** together. They are obviosly not taking the user into consideration. I don’t know any user that has documented a request to put these two together. Oh right, the marketers. Forgot about them….

I haven’t heard much about the Sony situation with its users, but i can definatly say that these big corperations need to slow down and so back to their “Email” and take a look at what their everyday deticated users are saying what is good and what could be better. After all its the user that they are distributing the product to at the end of the day. I honestly don’t think its that difficult. Take Windows Vista For example. Chris Pirillo didn’t think it was ready to be put on the Market place, along with a handfull of other people. It was still released, and now Windows is facing the largest turnover of users to Apple’s Mac Computers.

In the end its the big companies that are going to feel the wrath of the users. They are going to see a dip in sales, and lower ratings, but HEY!!! Don’t say we didn’t warn you.

Bradley Bradwell

I have to be honest. I probably would have paid to get rid of the Bloatware. As of right now, I priced a sony laptop, and I couldn’t find a way NOT to include the demos. So what do I have to do if I order one? I have to remove it myself.

Apple FTW!

I think it was a great decision from Apple to include Safari to their software update. I think more people will realize how great Safari is. Safari 3.1 runs perfectly on Windows and is much faster than IE. What is more, it looks better.

Chris, Yes, it’s OK to use one app to market another one: once. Then the user makes a choice, and that should be the end of it. Btw, Apple’s sneakiness did not start with Safari…

Apple is just as ignorant of their community as Microsoft - they get away with it, because unlike the MS-Borg, they make excellent products, and the community forgives them. Nowhere else to go :-(

and other such bloat) in order to make up for the money they were losing as a result of selling clean machines. Once more the gorilla got its panties in a knot and Sony backtracked and said they would offer the decrapification service for free. WellChris Pirillo then postson how it is all about the community and how it is always right Sony didn’t return fire to those bloggers who attacked them for this shortsighted decision - instead, it reversed its decision to blackmail its would-be customers. Good for you, Sony -

I’m not sure but isn’t Safari and Firefox almost the same? I have an iMac w/Leopard and I use Firefox 2.0.0.12. I also have Safari on it. The biggest difference I find is that Safari and GMail don’t interact together the same as it does with Firefox. I haven’t upgraded to the new Safari but I will.

+ Discussion: Zoli’s Blog, MacUser, MacDailyNews, TechWeb, VentureBeat,Chris Pirillo, Macworld, Asa Dotzler, The Apple Core and Digg

Did you ever install Quicktime on it’s own on a Windows system. And then struggle and ultimately fail to get the update service to try to *just* update the installed Quicktime and not install iTunes. Over and over again until you just removed the damn update thing?

What’s the betting if all you want is Quicktime, you’ll still get Apple nagging you to install iTunes and Safari every time Quicktime gets a new release and for ever?

Oh god. Company’s these days practically feeding us more and more tools from the tools we originally wanted. If we want one application then we shouldn’t have to install a second one. BTW I looked up the Oceanic 815. That’s crazy that it happened, I never even heard of this :(.

I guess your predictions happened Chris.
I agree with “LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY.”

I believe that should really be something that needs to be said to EVERY organization or business out there because it is important. They have to stop looking at their “research” and really go out and pay attention to what the “community” has to say if they want to get ahead and make friends. Us complaining does mean they are doing something right and something wrong because we care enough to try and point them to the right direction.

Totally agree with this blog post and hope your voice gets heard by Apple, Sony, and many others!

So, we are criticizing Sony for charging to remove bloatware from the systems you buy from them, AND praising Apple for pushing bloatware onto the user?
If it wasn’t a defaulted option to install Safari as an “update” then that wouldn’t be bad, but defaulting it does in my book border on malware.

Sony is notorious for this sort of behavior. Does anyone recall the root kit they placed on CD’s awhile back? Sony really needs to pull their head out. Talk about a company that has lost its way!

The Apple thing is to be expected, as you said, and I find it to be acceptable, because it’s a user-option. Nothing worse than downloading things like Skype and getting Yahoo! search bar or something included.

Thanks for another great article, Chris.

Cool! I wish Firefox did this with Thunderbird. Makes it so much simpler.

Awesome! This is progress for everyone who wishes to buy products from these companies. This tactic they hope would bring more revenue in, but now that is starting to crumble…as people just click the lovely “Uninstall” button and throw away the disc! Again, this is AWESOME to my ears!

Companies have been bundling **** with free applications for years such as toolbars and all the **** that ISPs bundle on their modem driver CDs such as virus checkers, customized browsers and help programs. What people don’t realize is that they don’t even need drivers they can just plug their modem into their computer using ethernet and that is all there is to it. Have you also seen the junk that Instant Messengers try and bundle in whether it be a Yahoo toolbar for IE or changing your default mail in the Start Menu to Yahoo! Mail.

People seem to give Apple a hard time for something that most companies are a lot worse for. I don’t really agree with bundling in software even if there is a box to uncheck to not have the add-on, but most people don’t bother reading that and click OK to everything. Fair play to Apple though. Maybe people who haven’t even heard about Firefox or Safari will download iTunes one day and Safari will pop up and they actually like it and the non geeks have actually found an alternative to IE thanks to Apple. As a Safari user on the Mac I think more people should be made aware. The majority of people won’t need thousands of extensions, they need a lightweight and quick and standards based browser, which Safari offers. As Chris has said with the iPhone, it is not about the features it is about the implementation.

I want to be in complete control over the software that I have on my computer. And that’s why I’m extremely picky. What really irks me is when things are pushed out to you by default and not requiring you to manually choose them, such as Apple pushing out Safari by default. I really wouldn’t have much of a problem with it if the default was an unchecked box in Apple Software Update.

Last night I just uninstalled a program and was surprised (and extremely glad) to see that the default option was to remove all traces of the program instead of you having to go into some custom removal mode in order to do so. That’s the control I want: if I chose to uninstall a program, I expect it to be gone. If I choose to put Apple Software on cruise control, I expect it to update ONLY the software I already have on my comptuer: end of story.

Heck, even Microsoft asks you if you’d like to install Silverlight, even if you’re running IE. They haven’t pushed it on anyone.

Microsoft has learned from using their control in the market and how it’s screwed things up. They’re no where near perfect, but one would have to admit they’re definitely improving. Apple on the other hand is only starting to get control of a particular market. Let’s hope history doesn’t repeat itself: and let’s also Apple doesn’t get away with it because everyone is so fan boyish and “in love” with them and they wouldn’t want to tarnish a brand.

That’s my 2c.

- Adam